Jeep® Will Manufacturer Four New Vehicles In India:

[redriderbob]

Jeep® Will Manufacturer Four New Vehicles In India:​

Wrangler, Compass, Grand Cherokee, and New Three-Row Compass-Based SUV...​

Jeep® Will Manufacturer Four New Vehicles In India:

The Jeep® brand recently announced its plans to invest $250 million to expand its portfolio offerings in the APAC market. According to the automaker, it will manufacture four new SUVs in India. The announcement came hot on the heels of the unveiling of the Indian-spec 2022 Jeep Compass refresh...

moparinsiders.com

 

[patfromigh]

I believe there was supposed to be a similar sized 3-row Fiat model to replace the Freemont. This model was coming from Latin America, but it is not intended for India. The reason I brought this out is because all I hear about lately is the Compass based 3-row Jeep. We desperately need something for the Chrysler brand.

 

[TripleT]

My opinion is given the volume of Chrysler brand .... maybe one or 2 per month per dealership that a full NA capacity implementation would be hard to justify. So you would either need to Kia or GM it (meaning all of it boxed for assembly from East EU, India, or China with local powertrain and endcaps.... Or just go the Buick Route and import it. The best Candidate and the vehicle that makes the most sense in the Grand Commander (which cannot be a Jeep in NA) Produce distinctive Caps mimicking the the Pacifica design language. As a Jeep it is already well appointed. While many would crow, it has not been a major issue for Buick or Volvo as consumer seem not that concerned as long as the chrome in the front represents the nation of purchase.

 

[patfromigh]

The Eagle Premier/Dodge Monaco offers a glimpse of the possibilities and pitfalls with local assembly of imported packaged components. Those cars offered a welcome respite from the K-car atmosphere which permeated throughout the final days of Highland Park. I realize the Premier originated from the AMC-Renault marriage, but if PSA wants to do the same thing with a vehicle for the Chrysler brand, I think it would work.

The first lesson the Premier offers is that a vehicle shouldn't offend local sensibilities. The interior needed to be changed early on. I suspect the the Premier/Monaco twins weren't money makers. AMC, then Chrysler were under contract to buy and build a certain amount of assemblies and vehicles. That imported V6-transmission combo couldn't have been cheap to buy. Today, Stellantis has access to suitable drivetrain components around the globe, including here in the US. A domestic drivetrain would be an asset to a contemporary Premier/Monaco type of vehicle. Such a vehicle doesn't have to be a sedan either, there are a lot of crossovers in the PSA catalog to choose from as well.

I don't know how much domestic content there is in the Ford Escape/Kuga vehicle built here in the USA. The Escape in very popular with our rental customers and this vehicle doesn't seem to suffer from any of the global design pitfalls. The higher trims can be optioned into absurdity, but for the most part the vehicle offers an example of success.

Another thought I have is this. How much of the Ram ProMaster is imported components? The Ram PM is obviously designed overseas, but it has been successful with its domestic driveline and modifications for North American service.

 

[TripleT]

First off there isn’t a lot of capacity in NA, Winsor and some Belvedere. Second the ROI on the margins for Chrysler models sourced here
from total implementation perspective. This is why it is being starved. It tough to justify being made and marketed as Chrysler when every other brand outside of Fiat would garner better margin. It’s quite a dilemma. Pure Electric? Maybe.... but when one says mass market your really saying low profit. Ford and GM have been always quite good at the international logistics required to try and short circuit the costing issues with local assembly. How do I know. It’s what i do. Chrysler tried a couple time and never could sort it. Maybe with new Corp, they could. But they are already building a car that was intended to be a Chrysler built in a lower cost market, where all but the caps exist. Just import it and have a model.

 

[patfromigh]

What is going into Toluca, to join the Compass? Compass demand should also be lower because there are more facilities building that model elsewhere. The Journey and Fiat 500 are both gone from Toluca. The Cherokee is the only thing built at Belvedere and as long as the base powertrain for it is the 2.4/9-speed no-one but rental companies will want to buy one. With a better drivetrain the front drive based Jeeps could outshine Toyota's RAV4, because that model is proving to be a fair weather friend.

I've driven the Opel built Buicks, they're garbage. The good news is I drove them to the glue factory. We don't need Opel built Chryslers.

 

[TripleT]

LATAM Toluca is building for LATAM. People are driving around in Chinese built Buicks and Volvos and don't even know. They think they are American and Swedish. Hell, Volvo is owned by the Chinese. People say they want Chrysler to have more models but they want to assign constraints the ruin the ROI, like assembled in NA. SM and FCA were no fans of Logo engineered cars competing on the same lot, but PSA seem to embrace it, so I suppose that is a option but I really think that is customer insulting. The fastest way for new Chrysler is for Grand Commander to be imported, and then a badged engineered PSA car...... Meanwhile the pure electrics.

 

[Bili]

@TripleT

Unlike for some other companies Toluca was and is NAFTA for FCA, now Stellantis. It's not LATAM.

 

[TripleT]

Mexico has agreements with the LATAM groups. But we digress the Capacity it ear marked for other markets.

 

[patfromigh]

Where will the Compass for North America come from? What products are going into Toluca and for what markets, that there is a capacity strain? There isn't a capacity strain on engines and transmissions. GM is importing engines from China as well a whole vehicles. The Chinese engines are terrible and Chevy is paying a price in lost reputation. Importing a Chinese Jeep with a Chrysler grill would kill the brand. People may not know or care where a vehicle comes from, but they sure pay attention to whether it is a POS.

 

[TripleT]

Compass is already using that in the Capacity, my assumption was you knew that and you were talking about capacity from the Journey which is earmarked for RAM 750 and or 1000 production.

I don't believe that FCA has a powertrain operation in China, that those are globally sourced, Buick is who has a fully Chinese assembled vehicle not Chevy. GM for nearly 20 years has been importing nearly entire cars from China in boxes..... Chevy Cruze is one of them and people seem to praise them. so IDK what the point is there. Its not like GM engine have ever been stellar ask anyone who had a Cadillac But until Kokomo is up and running full speed, yes they are very drivetrain constrained unless you want pop a obsolete powertrain in a new offering.

And the POS comment actually a bit offensive if it is attached to the idea that people in other part of the world cannot create a quality product if they have the proper materials and management. That is false once was used on Japanese, the Koreans, and Taiwanese. They were behind at one point, they are catching up.

It would not kill the brand that frankly has a diminishing value everyday, to have additional products, and then you have the back rearward ... It is a Chrysler with Jeep grill on it. It was intended for NA but could never could get a ROI. It is not a Jeep.

If people are going to continue to put constraints on Chrysler that kill the ROI they will shutter the brand and people will point at management as the cause. TIPO cross should be imported, the Grand Commander imported, and I would advocate to a Peugeot CUV to me imported that give you a C, C+, and D offering in a brand that will be only Minivans in a few year without a new product.

There is no ROI on a NA implementation for Chrysler, the executive still smart from the 200 debacle, it would be well for people to come to terms with that. They are not going to displace a Jeep to make a Chrysler, they are not going to displace a Ram to make a Chrysler, and they are not going to displace a Dodge the make a Chrysler ...... they will always make it those other brands as the each have a better Demographic and margin. It would be poor management to do otherwise. This has to be come to terms with.

If one wants the brand to survive..... this box its in has to be opened up. Kill every alternative solution is what will Kill the brand, not a car made somewhere else.

 

[patfromigh]

I'm sorry, but there is no other way to describe the German built, badge engineered Buick Casada. Maybe some of the latest Chinese built imports are now better, but I wouldn't know because fleets tend to avoid them. Speaking of German built cars, those BMW fleet specials sent our way don't win me over with the plastic interior bits. Why didn't they put crank windows in them as well?

GM proved decades ago that putting different wrappers on the same candy bar is the road to ruin.

The Chrysler 200 failed for a number of reasons, chief of them is that it was a mediocre sedan in a sedan segment which was caving in. Will the new Stellantis directors allow the Chrysler brand to have some decent crossovers? Some of the PSA offerings look inviting, but some of the styling inside and out will have to be tweaked for American tastes. The Fiat Fastback concept of a few years ago pointed to a new Fiat branded SUV for Latin America. I don't know what happened to that model, it was rumored to be a "suburban" version of the Toro. That would have made a great Chrysler offering. Fiats and Jeeps roll down the same lines elsewhere. The Chrysler and Dodge Lx cars do as well. Ultimately what happens next is now in the hands of Stellantis management.

 

[TripleT]

swapped the 200 with the Accord. It still would have failed. It failed because it was a diminishing class, not its middling, that was way over capacity. It should have never been green lighted for implimentarion. Aside from the imported in the box every car in that class is now a loser. Honda and Toyota scrambled to diversify their capacity, Ford punted but not after massive loses, Toyota losses so bad the chairman himself came over to fire the GM of Georgetown.

So there has been CUV completely developed on CUSW+ that would run at Winsor, The CUSW model that became the Grand Commander, a full sized replacement of the 300 on the CUSW+, and another tweener on the CUSW. 3 out of the 4 have been shelved. I think odds are it’s will be 4 for 4.

i get that you wish good things for the Chrysler, but most it’s consumers have aged out or won’t pay for them. So i advocate the Buick model which is a similar demographic. Import.

i explained the ROI is tough and why. I am just try to explain and help understand not argue.

i will tell you as someone who traveled around the world.... the idea the French cars are better than a current China built FCA car is comical to me. And yes I been in both often.

 

[Tony K]

Compass is already using that in the Capacity, my assumption was you knew that and you were talking about capacity from the Journey which is earmarked for RAM 750 and or 1000 production.

I don't believe that FCA has a powertrain operation in China, that those are globally sourced, Buick is who has a fully Chinese assembled vehicle not Chevy. GM for nearly 20 years has been importing nearly entire cars from China in boxes..... Chevy Cruze is one of them and people seem to praise them. so IDK what the point is there. Its not like GM engine have ever been stellar ask anyone who had a Cadillac But until Kokomo is up and running full speed, yes they are very drivetrain constrained unless you want pop a obsolete powertrain in a new offering.

And the POS comment actually a bit offensive if it is attached to the idea that people in other part of the world cannot create a quality product if they have the proper materials and management. That is false once was used on Japanese, the Koreans, and Taiwanese. They were behind at one point, they are catching up.

It would not kill the brand that frankly has a diminishing value everyday, to have additional products, and then you have the back rearward ... It is a Chrysler with Jeep grill on it. It was intended for NA but could never could get a ROI. It is not a Jeep.

If people are going to continue to put constraints on Chrysler that kill the ROI they will shutter the brand and people will point at management as the cause. TIPO cross should be imported, the Grand Commander imported, and I would advocate to a Peugeot CUV to me imported that give you a C, C+, and D offering in a brand that will be only Minivans in a few year without a new product.

There is no ROI on a NA implementation for Chrysler, the executive still smart from the 200 debacle, it would be well for people to come to terms with that. They are not going to displace a Jeep to make a Chrysler, they are not going to displace a Ram to make a Chrysler, and they are not going to displace a Dodge the make a Chrysler ...... they will always make it those other brands as the each have a better Demographic and margin. It would be poor management to do otherwise. This has to be come to terms with.

If one wants the brand to survive..... this box its in has to be opened up. Kill every alternative solution is what will Kill the brand, not a car made somewhere else.

Generally, agree. As far as the Chinese, very much true that given the right materials and management, the Chinese can get the job done. I talked to a guy from Washington, IN, who worked for Ashley Furniture, and he was highly complimentary of the Chinese he worked with over the years. Granted, they make consumer grade furniture. Example going back 30 years, Norinco didn't make the best guns in the world, but they were reliable and definitely had good steel, and the only reason an American gunsmith won't work on one of their clone guns (M14 or M1911) is generally origin. The only thing I have to say counter to your penultimate paragraph is, doesn't that become a self-fulfilling prophesy along the lines of "if you do what you always did, you get what you always got?" IOW, if you want Chrysler to be something more than just an amorphous "people mover" brand, you do whatever is necessary to make it one.

 

[Mgdstar]

Generally, agree. As far as the Chinese, very much true that given the right materials and management, the Chinese can get the job done. I talked to a guy from Washington, IN, who worked for Ashley Furniture, and he was highly complimentary of the Chinese he worked with over the years. Granted, they make consumer grade furniture. Example going back 30 years, Norinco didn't make the best guns in the world, but they were reliable and definitely had good steel, and the only reason an American gunsmith won't work on one of their clone guns (M14 or M1911) is generally origin. The only thing I have to say counter to your penultimate paragraph is, doesn't that become a self-fulfilling prophesy along the lines of "if you do what you always did, you get what you always got?" IOW, if you want Chrysler to be something more than just an amorphous "people mover" brand, you do whatever is necessary to make it one.

Need to remember the one most important issue - China is a communist country and wants to be number one in the world at all cost. I have family and friend in China. China people are great, CCP is not. We need to stop supporting CCP money and power!

 

[Tony K]

Need to remember the one most important issue - China is a communist country and wants to be number one in the world at all cost. I have family and friend in China. China people are great, CCP is not. We need to stop supporting CCP money and power!

That's kind of a double-edged sword. We need China to become a responsible trading partner and part of the solution, not the problem. I don't think you can effectively do that if you're not engaged. I wear a green suit to work on occasion, so this is sort of in my wheelhouse. I don't know what the right answer is with the CCP, but we have more leverage as a trading partner than we do as a non-partner. After all, who buys all their cheap stuff? The West. I just think we waited too long to deal with the problem. If the collective West had gotten together last decade and dealt with China more firmly, we might not be dealing with some of the problems and internal political turmoil here as a result.