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If I ran the Stellantis

patfromigh

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The lack of product for the domestic brands (notably Chrysler and Dodge) seems to cause concern every time a new product is announced for markets outside North America (ONA). I am starting this thread as a place for such discussions, so other threads don't get side tracked. We don't need to just talk about the model lineup or potential vehicle models, we can also discuss corporate strategy or the perceived lack thereof.

Please keep in mind that for the most part government regulations influence much of today's product decisions. Vehicles are tall because more space is needed for batteries. That is part of the reason two box vehicles dominate the market. It is a whole different regulatory ball game than when CAFE could be met simply by slicing and dicing K-cars in the 1980s.

We have been told new vehicles are on the way since 2017. We get new Rams and Jeeps. The Pacifica showed up pretty much in time, as well as the optional plugin hybrid option for it. For other vehicles it has been like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football always being yanked away at the last moment.

To be honest, I am glad we won't see the Chinese built Dodge Journey here. The 2.4 Tigershark with the Multi-Air setup is a liability. I was disappointed when it showed up in the refreshed Jeep Compass. The less we see of that motor the better. This brings a point worth considering. What good does it do to have fuller vehicle lineups if there aren't class leading powertrains to offer them with. The GME four cylinder engines are still waiting for some of its tooling here in North America. I don't think the GSE is ready for production here either.

I would like to see the new Fiat 500e sold here. I belief there is till room for Fiat in our market, but not as a volume brand. I am also anxious to see what the new Dodge Hornet will be like when it arrives here next year.
 

AlexB

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The lack of product for the domestic brands (notably Chrysler and Dodge) seems to cause concern every time a new product is announced for markets outside North America (ONA). I am starting this thread as a place for such discussions, so other threads don't get side tracked. We don't need to just talk about the model lineup or potential vehicle models, we can also discuss corporate strategy or the perceived lack thereof.

Please keep in mind that for the most part government regulations influence much of today's product decisions. Vehicles are tall because more space is needed for batteries. That is part of the reason two box vehicles dominate the market. It is a whole different regulatory ball game than when CAFE could be met simply by slicing and dicing K-cars in the 1980s.

We have been told new vehicles are on the way since 2017. We get new Rams and Jeeps. The Pacifica showed up pretty much in time, as well as the optional plugin hybrid option for it. For other vehicles it has been like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football always being yanked away at the last moment.

To be honest, I am glad we won't see the Chinese built Dodge Journey here. The 2.4 Tigershark with the Multi-Air setup is a liability. I was disappointed when it showed up in the refreshed Jeep Compass. The less we see of that motor the better. This brings a point worth considering. What good does it do to have fuller vehicle lineups if there aren't class leading powertrains to offer them with. The GME four cylinder engines are still waiting for some of its tooling here in North America. I don't think the GSE is ready for production here either.

I would like to see the new Fiat 500e sold here. I belief there is till room for Fiat in our market, but not as a volume brand. I am also anxious to see what the new Dodge Hornet will be like when it arrives here next year.
I got to add this huge factor that I feel people often forget: Stellantis is not an independent company like the old Chrysler Corporation was.
FIAT/Stellantis is family controlled publicly traded company especially with the upcoming exit of French Government and Dongfeng as shareholders Stellantis shareholder Dongfeng sells down stake for 600 mln euros

People compare Agnelli’s and Ford’s families: after all Iacocca was fired from a family controlled company.
Finally, people can’t often separate the “Chrysler business” from Chrysler Brand. Despite whatever you feel about the brand, the “Chrysler business” (Stellantis North America)has never been as profitable as it will this year under a chip shortage with Profits before the factors of Tax&Interest of $12-13 billion.
 
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ChargerFan1

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A lot of Dodge's and Chryslers are on shaky ground and this is by all means a shaky time. You could come out with a gasoline or all electric version today and either could fail due to the times. A gasser seen as "old tech" or an EV seen as "too futuristic / not enough chargers" etc. I don't blame them for being gun shy at the current moment especially when their plans are full EV a few years into the future when infrastructure and adoption will be better.
 

KrisW

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Dodge Hornet will be sold as both a plug-in hybrid (1.3 GSE) and closed-loop hybrid (1.5 GSE), plus a gasoline 2.0. There is no BEV in the range for this model: pricing and weight are against it.

I think that mix of powertrain is the best offering you could have for the US market as it stands right now.

1.5 is a new engine, and is producing good efficiency and power numbers based on early leaks. The 1.3 plug-in hybrid is an improved version of the system in European Renegade/Compass 4xe (I’ve driven the previous version in Renegade and been impressed), and 2.0 is already well regarded.
I believe the transmission for the 1.5 hybrid is a 7-speed dual-clutch design, but it’s a wet-clutch type, which eliminates the heat issues from the old DDCT box- also, with an electromotor on board, the low-speed creep is electric, so doesn’t affect the clutch plates at all. For 2.0 I don’t know what transmission is planned, but this is a transverse ("east-west") engine layout, so it will not be the 8HP.

2.4 is gone. It will not be offered in future models. US production of the new 1.5 has started, so It’s reasonable to expect a powertrain refresh in other models sometime soon.
 

Mopar392

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Dodge and other US part of Stellantis should offer a combination of PHEV, HEV and ICE for their models.
Jeep Wrangler and Grand Cherokee are the first examples, followed by Grand Wagoneer.
I sure hope next Dodge Challenger and Charger don't abandon ICE, even though Tim's giving the impression that they do.
 

patfromigh

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Auburn Hills management has invested time and money to commit many new products using the ZF eight speed. I doubt Dodge will walk away from that with the next generation of rear drive cars. The ZF technology is what is behind the Jeep 4Xe hybrid system in the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee.
 

patfromigh

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The Chrysler Voyager is fleet only in the USA. In Canada the Chrysler Voyager is called the Chrysler Grand Voyager STX and is available to retail customers as a value model. The styling and one model lineup with limited options are the same for both van names.

I think there is a business case for a Dodge Grand Caravan ES inspired by the 1999-2003 model year offerings with that trim level. Those were the years the ES became a distinctive sport level trim with the larger motor standard, with upgraded suspension, wheels and tires. Since the Pentastar V6 and Stow-n-Go are now standard, such a vehicle could still be a value package. With the correct styling, suspension and wheel upgrades, it still would fit the Dodge image. It wouldn't have the cross-hair grill, but use something which evokes the Dodge persona.
 

Rustydodge

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This ball can be kicked multiple directions. I will say as a company, they are always going to invest wherever they think the best ROI will be. Recent history that has been Ram and Jeep but i'm sure dodges performance success has spoken for itself - at least in terms of enthusiasm if not also profit.

I understand the argument however that some of the newer "fiat" jeeps could have been better served as chrysler's. They've somewhat watered down jeep as a result, and left chrysler will nothing new increasingly leading it to irrelevance. Though if they want jeep to be the SUV brand then i guess that's where suv's have to go, whether true offroaders or not.

I'm curious if they'll go the gm buick route, and ship more china stuff over as chryslers? I can't see investing much capital into chrysler at this point.

Cant say i'm particularly attached to the chrysler brand if i'm honest. Either make it the go-to, sensical people mover brand or figure out how to offer those vehicles in the established, higher margin brands without them being half-baked/badge engineered and not true to that brand. Guess we'll know "in 10 years" though the writing will be on the wall sooner than that.

I'm said to see the older journey go for those that need an entry priced 3row. I'm concerned same will happen to Durango. Everything is getting expensive and with some of rams success coming from keeping the "entry" classic 1500 there surely can be a way to find that in a chrysler or dodge model somewhere.
 

patfromigh

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The Journey was supposed to be the replacement for the short wheelbase Voyagers and Caravans of the past. Those vans were of the original formula that earned great success on the sales floor. Most of the years they were around Plymouth was still viable and Dodge wasn't total muscle yet. One could go into a dealer and find an affordable three row vehicle. It wasn't this way at first because when the Chrysler Corporate minis were the only game in town many dealers were price gouging. When the competition offered comparable products more affordable Voyagers and Caravans became easier to find.

Today the short wheelbase minivan is dead. The passenger version of the Ford Transit Connect is a long wheelbase only offering as are all Ram ProMaster City models. The PMC doesn't even offer a third row in the US market. The loss of the Dodge Journey without a suitable replacement is especially painful in light of this situation.
 

patfromigh

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Dodge and other US part of Stellantis should offer a combination of PHEV, HEV and ICE for their models.
Jeep Wrangler and Grand Cherokee are the first examples, followed by Grand Wagoneer.
I sure hope next Dodge Challenger and Charger don't abandon ICE, even though Tim's giving the impression that they do.
Does this make you feel better about future product choices?

Stellantis NV on Thursday announced a $229 million investment in three Kokomo, Indiana, plants in a move it said would help accelerate its electrification plans.

The investment, which the transatlantic automaker said would retain 662 jobs, will fund the retooling of the three plants to produce electrified eight-speed transmissions. The next-generation transmissions can be used in internal combustion, mild hybrid or plug-in hybrid vehicles, consistent with the automaker's strategy of producing a mix of gasoline-powered, hybrid and all-electric vehicles as it strives to reach 40% low-emission vehicle sales in the U.S. by 2030.

Source: Stellantis to invest $229 million in three Indiana plants for electrified transmissions
 

ChargerFan1

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The Chrysler Voyager is fleet only in the USA. In Canada the Chrysler Voyager is called the Chrysler Grand Voyager STX and is available to retail customers as a value model. The styling and one model lineup with limited options are the same for both van names.

I think there is a business case for a Dodge Grand Caravan ES inspired by the 1999-2003 model year offerings with that trim level. Those were the years the ES became a distinctive sport level trim with the larger motor standard, with upgraded suspension, wheels and tires. Since the Pentastar V6 and Stow-n-Go are now standard, such a vehicle could still be a value package. With the correct styling, suspension and wheel upgrades, it still would fit the Dodge image. It wouldn't have the cross-hair grill, but use something which evokes the Dodge persona.
I'd say do this for Chrysler but they already had the Pacifica S and dropped it. It was probably due to price though, they want an arm and a leg for these vans now. Back in the day they were dirt cheap which helped make the decision easy for people. Now its literally "do we get this van or the grand cherokee"
 

patfromigh

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From the Stellantis North America Media website:
 

patfromigh

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I'd say do this for Chrysler but they already had the Pacifica S and dropped it. It was probably due to price though, they want an arm and a leg for these vans now. Back in the day they were dirt cheap which helped make the decision easy for people. Now its literally "do we get this van or the grand cherokee"
The "S" package is still available for 2022 on the Touring (base) trim level. The Pacifica's and Gran Cherokee L price points do overlap in places. It is also "Do we get the Kia van or a Dodge Durango" since those two vehicles have overlapping price points. I also might add they have very similar fuel economy numbers.

Which day are you going back to? The Pacifica has put the Chrysler minivan back to its pre-Daimler position. It wasn't cheap then. When Daimler cheapened everything up Chrysler brand minivan sales circled in the porcelain bowl.

Last point, it is a builders market and no longer a buyers market.
 

AlexB

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I'd say do this for Chrysler but they already had the Pacifica S and dropped it. It was probably due to price though, they want an arm and a leg for these vans now. Back in the day they were dirt cheap which helped make the decision easy for people. Now its literally "do we get this van or the grand cherokee"
Your post really registered with me, because the Chrysler brand will face the very similar question with the Electric Large CUV VS future EV options on Grand Cherokee.
 

ChargerFan1

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The "S" package is still available for 2022 on the Touring (base) trim level. The Pacifica's and Gran Cherokee L price points do overlap in places. It is also "Do we get the Kia van or a Dodge Durango" since those two vehicles have overlapping price points. I also might add they have very similar fuel economy numbers.

Which day are you going back to? The Pacifica has put the Chrysler minivan back to its pre-Daimler position. It wasn't cheap then. When Daimler cheapened everything up Chrysler brand minivan sales circled in the porcelain bowl.

Last point, it is a builders market and no longer a buyers market.
They should advertise it as its own trim line on the website then, bland, bland and more bland is all they have on there. Also I believe MSRP + inflation the 90's town and country might meet up with the pacifica of today but I am thinking of the $18,000 caravans that use to sell like hot cakes for years.
 

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