Fiat can't wait forever for Renault

[VoiceOfReason]

City center entry is not a legislation. It's not a law.

Is a city a municipality?
That's political.

There is a need for electrification in Europe.

The word "need" is subjective.

Who owns a car in New York?

Those people filling up the streets in Manhattan . . .

 

[TripleT]

Europe would need a better infrastructure system before they can implement the need for Electrification.... They Cart is ahead of the Horse....

That make me feel is more a push against individual ownership which mean a lot of lost jobs in a part of the world that cannot afford it.

 

[VoiceOfReason]

I thought this was interesting:

‘They Don’t Need Us Anymore’: Auto Workers Fear Electric Unrest

(Bloomberg) -- The milkman went missing thanks to the rise of refrigerators. Switchboard operators were done in by the dawn of direct dialing. And in the car industry, auto workers are deathly afraid the engine assembler will give way to battery builders.Dread over the prospect that plug-in cars...

finance.yahoo.com

Electrification poses challenges to unions as electric cars have fewer parts, take up less floor space to manufacture, etc. There is a lot of uncertainty which has many people concerned for a variety of reasons. However, the article did address the anemic adoption of electric vehicles here in the states citing neither the Bolt nor Volt GM EV plants are running at capacity.

 

[Mopar426]

 

[TripleT]

I thought this was interesting:

‘They Don’t Need Us Anymore’: Auto Workers Fear Electric Unrest

(Bloomberg) -- The milkman went missing thanks to the rise of refrigerators. Switchboard operators were done in by the dawn of direct dialing. And in the car industry, auto workers are deathly afraid the engine assembler will give way to battery builders.Dread over the prospect that plug-in cars...

finance.yahoo.com

Electrification poses challenges to unions as electric cars have fewer parts, take up less floor space to manufacture, etc. There is a lot of uncertainty which has many people concerned for a variety of reasons. However, the article did address the anemic adoption of electric vehicles here in the states citing neither the Bolt nor Volt GM EV plants are running at capacity.

Have you seen a battery array.... the less parts thing is suspect. Maybe less different parts.... and they will eventually have to be made locally as they are basically illegal to ship in mass quantities being a class 9 hazarad. I would get to excited yet unless they comeup with a better battery design they have only been working on it 125 years.

 

[Bili]

I thought this was interesting:

‘They Don’t Need Us Anymore’: Auto Workers Fear Electric Unrest

(Bloomberg) -- The milkman went missing thanks to the rise of refrigerators. Switchboard operators were done in by the dawn of direct dialing. And in the car industry, auto workers are deathly afraid the engine assembler will give way to battery builders.Dread over the prospect that plug-in cars...

finance.yahoo.com

Electrification poses challenges to unions as electric cars have fewer parts, take up less floor space to manufacture, etc. There is a lot of uncertainty which has many people concerned for a variety of reasons. However, the article did address the anemic adoption of electric vehicles here in the states citing neither the Bolt nor Volt GM EV plants are running at capacity.

And??? AFAIK FCA has no plans of building BEV cars in US in the near future. So it's irrelevant.

On the other hand PHEVs are more complicated than ICE only cars and especially BEV cars.

 

[Bili]

Have you seen a battery array.... the less parts thing is suspect. Maybe less different parts.... and they will eventually have to be made locally as they are basically illegal to ship in mass quantities being a class 9 hazarad. I would get to excited yet unless they comeup with a better battery design they have only been working on it 125 years.

IMO, FCA will open some battery factories in the near future. Mirafiori is the likely candidate. Dunno about US or Canada.

 

[TripleT]

Class 9 shipping is a bi4ch they are just now figuring out that it is too big a nut to crack easier to assemble locally.

 

[VoiceOfReason]

Something else he didn’t mention was if you are driving an electric car in heavy rain and you have to drive through a low spot in the road where the water level is high, an electric car will experience complete electric failure leaving the car literally “dead in the water”.
To be fair, I disagree with his assessment of battery life. The battery in my iPhone 6s+ is over three years old and has no noticeable degradation in charge storage. Granted, he was addressing far older batteries, but I think he did over exaggerate that point. However, he also did not address the power draw of using electricity to generate cabin heat in winter which reduces range by some 40%. Less of an issue in warmer climates, but most of the US and Europe have cold winters.

 

[Bili]

However, he also did not address the power draw of using electricity to generate cabin heat in winter which reduces range by some 40%. Less of an issue in warmer climates, but most of the US and Europe have cold winters.

Europe has milder climate than most of North America due to Gulf stream influence plus warming in recent decades had caught Europe but not so much North America.

But it's irrelevant because cars can be equipped with Webasto for heating. It's not unseen on some more expensive cars while on public buses in Europe it's a norm.

 

[VoiceOfReason]

Europe has milder climate than most of North America due to Gulf stream influence plus warming in recent decades had caught Europe but not so much North America.

But it's irrelevant because cars can be equipped with Webasto for heating. It's not unseen on some more expensive cars while on public buses in Europe it's a norm.

Southern Europe has the entire Mediterranean Sea, but central and northern Europe do not. The differences in temperature are not that significant. It still gets cold in central and Northern Europe, they still get snowfall.

 

[TripleT]

So what your saying is for Electric implementation to actually work in EU they need climate change...

The focus on a Trace green house gas is typical of Government. Less than 5% of total greenhouse gases is CO2... How do we know this IPCC actual report, not the political Summary to Law Makers. Also the US oceanography, measure percentages. Not theory actual measurements. Water vapor being the dominate Green house gas, note that one of the emissions from "clean' energy production is water vapor. Of that less than 5% a high estimate is 3% from man energy production. These numbers are not often talked about because .15% isn't easy to create a crisis over, especially when faced with another fractional multiplier per country. Sorry to spoil the entire Green wrapper on the friend of the EU (socialism) its tough to move on from the Feudalism where elites(flying around if private planes) control the economy and peasants scramble for scraps from there electric ride share.

Electric implementation is coming not because it was organic but because it be legislated. But it is happening none the less.

 

[Deckard Cain]

Do you guys know anything about this Clotilde? Is she in favour of a merger or not?
If FCA got their hands on Renault it would make them a power to be reckoned with in Europe.

 

[VoiceOfReason]

California’s power outage means problems for electric cars

SAN FRANCISCO - As more than half a million customers in this area lost power Wednesday amid a series of planned outages aimed at thwarting wildfires, Tesla owners were confronted with another troubling possibility: their cars running out of juice.The...

www.seattletimes.com

 

[KrisW]

@Deckard Cain I think her first job is to steady the R-N-M partnership. Nissan is facing a rough year or two. Its profits have collapsed, and now it may be forced to close its most productive European plant because of Brexit (70% of supply-chain originating in other EU countries cannot survive if tariffs arrive).

However, one of Renault's motivations in merging with FCA would have been to increase its significance in the R-N-M Alliance. Now that Nissan has imploded, and may need assistance from Renault (again) to recover, that might not be an issue.


... Any chance we could keep the climate arguments off this topic? Nobody is going to have their minds changed on this issue by a forum post.

 

[Deckard Cain]

It's almost as if mergers are done for one side of the group to prop-up the other when they are weak and vice-versa.
Something that many people seem to forget unfortunately.

 

[AlfaCuda]

This in today.

Renault chairman vows to get Nissan alliance back on track next year

Looks like the Renault chief definitely wants it.