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FCA switches development of next B segment models to PSA's CMP platform

pumadog

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As 'Corriere della Sera' reports, FCA informed their suppliers and partners for production of upcoming B segment models to be produced in Tichy/Poland, that current development has to be stopped for a switch to PSA's CMP platform. The affected models are said to be a 5-door Fiat 500, Lancia Ypsilon and mini Jeep. The current CMP platform is capable of ICE and BEV vehicles.

Source: Corriere (Italian)


So the platform reduction comes even faster than expected…
 

Bili

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Of course, Jeep JJ/516 will not have AWD and will not be a global product. o_O

No, at this moment they can't sign and contract or make any decision about PSA sourced platforms and products. BTW, CMP is highly compromised platform in its BEV form and is FWD only in all its forms.

But what's funny to me is mentioning of a 5 door 500 and new Ypsilon. Those 2 were never in the plans or communicated to dealers. The talk was always about 3 to 5 new SUV models. 2 Fiats and 1 Alfa, Jeep And maybe Lancia.
 

pumadog

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Of course the 500 was: Giardinera. But it seems the mentioned models are rumor-based, but not the letter. As for AWD, already the current Renegade and Compass switch to the 4Xe versions for that, at least in Europe. No mechanical AWD anymore: https://www.jeep.de/content/dam/jeep/de/de/renegade-preisliste-neu.pdf SO I guess an AWD solution on CMP can be possible as well in the future.
 

Bili

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No, CMP is FWD only in ICE and BEV form. It doesn't have AWD or RWD functionality.

Smart CMP is coming in 2025 according to Carlos Tavares. So making all new CMP based car in 2023 or even 2024 is just wrong.
 

pumadog

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Well, we don't know if there's a SUV to be produced in Poland. If it is, it might ignore AWD for European B segment. Maybe a Brasilian version has it, if you think about Punto EU vs. Punto SA. 500 5-door, Ypsilon or Panda-B certainly wouldn't miss it. But would benefit from BEV versions while keeping ICE versions. They can't go BEV-only with all their small models! And then there's the planned Alfa B SUV with BEV version and still no indication, but official denial of a ICE version of the eMini platform.
 

Bili

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You still think that Fiat 500 platform is BEV only?
 

pumadog

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Sure. That's official word and there are no indications for something else AFAIK. If there was to be – wouldn't it be the project that just got frozen/canceled?
 

Bili

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But what I've heard, and I've heard it late next year, was that B SUV project is technically related to new 500. At the time I didn't believe it. Let's say that at this moment I know it's technically feasible. I.e. to have BEV with batteries in the floor and ICE on the same platform. Actually some carmakers made such plans official. BMW with CLAR in 2021, PSA with EMP2 v4 in 2023.

That part I can say publicly.

What I didn't like... Is this platform suitable to give a proper Jeep or Alfa Romeo product. Will it be wide enough to play against competition from B segment. For Alfa I would like short wheelbase Tonale.

Ah... IMO PSA has screwed Opel with new Mokka. Long wheelbase went to Pug 2008 while Opel got the long wheelbase. And all the time when except for VW all best sellers in the segment got bigger. Like Captur or already mentioned 2008. even Škoda Kamiq is very roomy.
 

Bili

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Based on the latest info I've heard they are still planning Alfa B-SUV on FCA platform. The plans after it depends on marriage.
 

pumadog

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PSA has screwed Opel with new Mokka. Long wheelbase went to Pug 2008 while Opel got the long wheelbase.
What do you mean? Both long wheelbase? The new Mokka looks pretty attractive to me – in contrast to the current one. When Crossland and Grandland came up I asked myself, why so many compact crossovers? But now the Crossland will be the roomy people mover (partly Meriva successor) and the Mokka the sportier, younger alternative. More irritating is the introduction of a new design language just one year after the new Corsa.

Maybe FCA goes CMP for hatchbacks (Poland, Serbia) and a Small Wide 4x4 electro evolution for small Crossovers/SUVs (Melfi, Pomigliano)? If they speak of the 500's electro platform, could they just mean the electric powertrain to be applicable in different mechanical platforms?
 

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FCA cancels its developments for the B-segment: its new models will use PSA's CMP platform to leverage its electrical technology
05/08/2020 by Alber Callejo

Despite the ongoing investigation initiated by the European Commission, the merger between FCA (FIAT-Chrysler) and PSA (Peugeot-Citroën, Opel) continues to progress. The resulting group, Stellantis, will become the fourth largest car manufacturer in the world, behind only the Volkswagen Group, the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance and Toyota.

Although the merger is expected to be completed in the first quarter of 2021, both companies have already reached a collaboration agreement in the B-segment (utilities), as a result of which FCA will use PSA's modular CMP platform in that category. While this deal is independent of the final outcome of the merger process, it will in time expedite the integration of both groups into one.

Thus, FCA has sent a letter to its employees and suppliers in Italy and Poland asking them to stop all research, development and production activities concerning B-segment models. Apparently the first factory to produce the new Italian-American models with French guts will be Thychy's Polish factory.

This decision will enable FCA to reduce enormously the development costs of its forthcoming small models. The CMP platform (which has an electric e-CMP variant) is currently used on the Peugeot 208 and 2008, Citroën C4, Opel Corsa and Mokka and DS 3 Crossback, all of which are available in 100% electric versions, one of the areas in which FCA is weakest.

When Opel was acquired by PSA in mid-2017, it was forced to cancel the launch of the sixth-generation Corsa developed with General Motors technology. Just two years later, a new Corsa with 100% PSA insides was launched. This speed of development was made possible by the fact that the new Corsa is a practical highlight of the Peugeot 208, from which it differs by its own exterior and interior design, although under the skin everything is identical.

This will apparently be the strategy followed by FCA, which will use PSA models as a starting point to speed up its own developments. Initially the brands that will benefit from these synergies will be FIAT and Alfa Romeo, although it is not ruled out that Lancia and Jeep may also launch models on the CMP platform in the short term.

Initially FCA will use the architecture of French origin to develop the replacement for the Punto, as well as the heir to the 500L and 500X (a B-SUV to be called 500XL). Alfa Romeo will use it as a base for a B-SUV located below the Tonale, which like the 500XL will have a 100% electric version. However, it is not known if the CMP will also arrive at the Jeep Renegade, as it is a model that has four-wheel drive. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Source: forococheselectricos.com
 

Bili

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What do you mean? Both long wheelbase? The new Mokka looks pretty attractive to me – in contrast to the current one.

Mokka has shorter wheelbase than 2008. IMO unless the brand name is VW it will not reflect good on sales. Maybe Germany will be the only exception.

More irritating is the introduction of a new design language just one year after the new Corsa.

I think it's pretty much clear. Corsa was just a quick badge engineering. They took more time with Mokka which led to a more unique design. They can even hide reletinship with other PSA models while Corsa even looks like it's related to 208.

Maybe FCA goes CMP for hatchbacks (Poland, Serbia) and a Small Wide 4x4 electro evolution for small Crossovers/SUVs (Melfi, Pomigliano)? If they speak of the 500's electro platform, could they just mean the electric powertrain to be applicable in different mechanical platforms.

From what I remember they've said that the new 500 is on the platform which will be suitable for A and B segment products and maybe even C segment.

Speaking about CMP and even EMP2 I always said they are mechanically good enough for low end Fiat offering but I'm not sure they are good for Jeep and Alfa. For sure they are not at mechanically at the level of some German car platforms. I don't share the same opinion about FCA products.

But what also bothers me with PSA platforms is bad packaging. Just look at 208, 308 or 508 and compare their rear legroom space with direct competitors. In 2 cases you can even compare them against FCA products. Tipo vs 308 and Giulia vs 508. Tipo has around 10 cm (4") more combined leg room. Giulia has slightly more combined leg room than 508 II although 508 II is on a front transverse engine FWD platform which should offer better packaging.


What's the point of this? All I see is rehashing of the same rumor. Unfortunately nowadays most news come from the one source then all other media outlets copying it and put some or none additional info or better said guess.
 

pumadog

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Not a rumor. Either the letter is real or fake news by several media outlets. Quattroruote with additional statements from FCA:
FCA Group - PSA platform for segment B models: the point on Italian supplies

The FCA and PSA groups have 'initiated discussions for potential Segment B cooperation projects separately from any merger negotiations'. With this brief statement, the two manufacturers confirmed the French CMP architecture sharing project (already used for the Peugeot 208 and Opel Corsa) which triggered the first concerns among Italian suppliers. The collaboration, however, is still in the process of being defined and for the moment there are no political or union controversies (as in the case of the 6.3 billion loan with state guarantees): in any case, Quattroruote learns, the tenders will not exclude tricolour supplies a priori.

The letter. The risk of a new dispute is linked to a letter sent to suppliers several weeks ago. In the letter, the FCA group informs the suppliers that the development project for a new platform to be used for the production of segment B vehicles has been halted, in particular at the Polish factory in Tychy, the "home" of the Fiat 500 and Lancia Ypsilon: "We wish to inform your company, on behalf of FCA Italy and FCA Poland, that the Fiat Chrysler segment B platform project has been halted due to an ongoing technological change", the text reads. "Therefore, we ask you to immediately cease all research, development and production activities in order to avoid further costs and expenses". The technological change would be linked, at least in part, to the consequences of the current health crisis: the coronavirus pandemic has lengthened the design time and therefore, in order to give a boost, FCA has decided to rely on a new architecture, already available on the market and considered more advanced, efficient and, among other things, in predicate to become one of the cornerstones of the new Stellantis group, although certainly not in a short time. It is, as said, the CMP made in PSA platform and it is precisely this choice that has triggered the fears of some suppliers, worried about losing orders and contracts for an alleged preferential lane rightly assigned to competitors beyond the Alps. In particular, within the Turin-based industry, there are those who have developed an equation that, at least for now, has no results, namely "French platform equals French components".

New perspectives. To get a better picture of the situation, it should not be forgotten that most Italian suppliers are no longer bound hand and foot to FCA as in the past with Fiat: today the Italian component manufacturers work with manufacturers all over the world, often also with the French PSA (precisely for CMP) and Renault. Secondly, from the Italo-American group they filter further information on what is further communicated to suppliers, more or less summarized as follows: start working on the projects necessary to participate in the tender for new supplies. The Italians, in short, will not be excluded a priori: quality, reliability and efficiency will count in the tender, not the flag. Finally, there should be no lack of prospects for new business opportunities, especially for those suppliers who have no links with the PSA group and who, through FCA, will be able to expand their sphere of action.

Developments. The whole project, however, is at an early stage and the puzzle is missing some vital elements: for example, it will need to be clarified how PSA will make the CMP platform available to Fiat Chrysler in the months leading up to the completion of the merger. In this regard, the possibility that FCA will "buy" the right to use the platform is not excluded, but to find out more we will have to wait for some information that - for now - the two groups do not intend to provide: "For reasons of confidentiality and obvious reasons of competitiveness", explain PSA and FCA, "at this stage we will not provide further details". The operation is therefore in full swing. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 

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@pumadog

ll Corriere Torino is the source of original news. The one which said that cars affected are 5 door 500, new Ypsilon and baby Jeep. Hmh.

Some parts of letters doesn't come along the first article posted by Il Corriere Torino.
 

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No hard tooling would be in process for 2025 so this doesn't seem legit ….
 

Deckard Cain

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Well, I really just want to see new Fiat Puntos or Unos and Lancias on the streets.
Using the same platform makes perfect and while Bili may argue that the CMP platform is compromised the fact is that PSA has more recent B-segment cars that are performing well commercially built on top of it than FCA has of B-segment cars built on top of the Small-Wide.
I do agree that it is compromised. All cars built on that platform have the same drawbacks: namely the terrible space in the rear seats and poor rear visibility. The EVs have a terrible rear suspension, but they do have other qualities: their battery capacity is perfectly suited for all european countries, the batteries are liquid-cooled and have fast-charging (something the Zoe does not have). So they're competitive with the current crop of EVs.

In fact, FCA is all but absent of the B-segment now. Therefore, we know that for future synergies they would use this platform. They wouldn't change the 208, Corsa and DS3 platform and they want to also sell new B-segment cars with a Fiat badge, because that will sell massively. As for the models launching late? The Citroen C3 was launched on the previous B-segment platform from PSA. That hasn't stopped it from being a huge sales success.
 

pumadog

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@Deckard Cain totally agree!

Now in Europe: PSA = successful B segment, FCA = no B segment at all (Ypsilon is stretched A)
And if the future choice is between stretched Mini or CMP platform, my vote goes to CMP. There's no indication of an updated FCA Small for normal hatchbacks (let alone a BEV version of that) or ICE eMini.

What I really like about the current PSA small cars is the proportions: Finally 2-box design again after generations of 1-box. 208 got much better proportions than previous 207/208 and Corsa much better than the D/E on Fiat/GM Small.
 
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Deckard Cain

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What I really like about the current PSA small cars is the proportions: Finally 2-box design again after generations of 1-box. 208 got much better proportions than previous 207/208 and Corsa much better than the D/E on Fiat/GM Small.

Completely agree. Their proportions are really nice.
IMO, the 208 is the most beautiful B-segment Peugeot since the 206 launched 20 years ago.
 

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