Freshforged
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2018
- Messages
- 260
- Reaction score
- 167
Interesting, more things in motion than I was aware of—HA, what else is new!
Mopar Insiders Forum
Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
FCA and Renault are in "advance" talks to partner,with CTC having more power than all of Nissan
- Thread starter AlexB
- Start date
James.A
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2018
- Messages
- 182
- Reaction score
- 91
How does that back fire ar FCA?
- Joined
- May 4, 2018
- Messages
- 1,792
- Reaction score
- 1,476
Merger has failed because of this:
www.google.com
Nissan was just used as excuse by French Government while they schemed behind the scenes with French Unions.
GE aims to slash 1,000 jobs in France to stop the bleeding at slumping power division
General Electric revealed plans on Tuesday to slash up to 1,044 jobs in France in a bid to halt the downward spiral of the conglomerate's power business.
Nissan was just used as excuse by French Government while they schemed behind the scenes with French Unions.
Freshforged
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2018
- Messages
- 260
- Reaction score
- 167
I don't follow
James.A
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2018
- Messages
- 182
- Reaction score
- 91
Ah, hit quote on the wrong post. Was meant for Bili... Sorry.
James.A
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2018
- Messages
- 182
- Reaction score
- 91
How has it backfired at FCA?
- Joined
- May 4, 2018
- Messages
- 1,792
- Reaction score
- 1,476
As I have said. General Electric has fired more than 1000 Alstom workers in France at the very same time when FCA made their proposal.
This has resulted in more demands from French Government although they had negotiated all before FCA has made a proposal.
FCA has even agreed on some of this new demands.
But then on the Wednesday night Renault Board voting was scheduled. Nissan representatives were absent. French Union representatives were against. Renault was for it. And then came French Government and asked to postpone it to at least next Tuesday.
They've said it was because of Nissan while actually it was because of them and their scheming with French Unions.
They even wanted all new Collective agreement.
Also France would be a new favorite nation and any lose of job there would be skipped and instead someone in US or Italy would be fired.
All of this was to much for FCA and they pull out.
John Elkann as he has said just protected interests of FCA and future of FCA's workers.
This has resulted in more demands from French Government although they had negotiated all before FCA has made a proposal.
FCA has even agreed on some of this new demands.
But then on the Wednesday night Renault Board voting was scheduled. Nissan representatives were absent. French Union representatives were against. Renault was for it. And then came French Government and asked to postpone it to at least next Tuesday.
They've said it was because of Nissan while actually it was because of them and their scheming with French Unions.
They even wanted all new Collective agreement.
Also France would be a new favorite nation and any lose of job there would be skipped and instead someone in US or Italy would be fired.
All of this was to much for FCA and they pull out.
John Elkann as he has said just protected interests of FCA and future of FCA's workers.
- Joined
- May 4, 2018
- Messages
- 1,792
- Reaction score
- 1,476
This is not over:
Redirect Notice
www.google.com
- Joined
- May 4, 2018
- Messages
- 1,792
- Reaction score
- 1,476
How France’s Intrusive Demands Quashed the Fiat-Renault Deal
PARIS — It was supposed to be a transformative merger in an industry facing intractable challenges. But Fiat Chrysler and Renault ran headlong this week into a familiar problem in France: the government itself.
With the two companies edging toward a deal, officials in Paris played a role that comes naturally — safeguarding jobs and protecting Renault, a celebrated brand here. But in the end, the government infuriated both Fiat and Renault executives, who wanted to create a competitive new industrial giant free of state influence, according to two people with knowledge of the discussions.
The merger appeared to be sealed after more than four hours of negotiations on Wednesday night at a marathon Renault board meeting in Paris. Then France’s finance minister, Bruno Le Maire, stunned those present with a message that he wanted to delay the vote for five days to consult in Tokyo with his Japanese counterpart about Nissan, Renault’s partner in a decades-old carmaking alliance, two people familiar with the discussions said.
Less than 20 minutes after he heard of the request, John Elkann, the chief executive of Fiat Chrysler, quit the talks, these people said.
The collapse of negotiations leaves both companies at odds with changes in the industry. Fiat Chrysler is the seventh-largest carmaker worldwide, and Renault is the eighth. Their relatively small size makes them vulnerable as the auto industry tries a costly and uncertain transition to electric cars and vehicles loaded with driver-assistance features.
And neither Renault nor Fiat Chrysler has a strong presence in China, the world’s largest car market and one of the few regions still seen as having potential for growth.
The merger mess may have other repercussions. Renault’s chief executive, Jean-Dominique Senard, who worked with Mr. Elkann to sort through the proposal, had the backing of most of the board but was blindsided by the government’s last demand. With the deal scuppered, Mr. Senard must weigh how effective he can be at Renault, according to the people with knowledge of the situation.
The proposed deal was first revealed by Fiat a week ago. After two days of talks this week, Renault had tentatively scheduled a news conference for Thursday morning to announce an agreement.
But the French government is Renault’s largest shareholder, and has a seat on the company’s board. As talks progressed, according to two people familiar with Fiat Chrysler, the French government tried to micromanage the process.
Its insistence on a number of concessions, including job guarantees, a seat on the new company’s board as well as veto power over appointments of a future chief executive, appeared to be only the tip of the iceberg should a deal go through, according to the people with knowledge of Fiat’s position.
As the government ramped up its demands, a realization set in at Fiat Chrysler that the French state would probably never stop trying to exercise some form of control, these people said.
Trying to manage one of the world’s largest automakers under such conditions would be unacceptable, one of the people said.
Renault issued a terse statement on Thursday, expressing “its disappointment not to have the opportunity to continue to pursue the proposal of FCA (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles).” It added: “We view the opportunity as timely, having compelling industrial logic and great financial merit, and which would result in a European based global auto powerhouse.”
On Thursday, French government officials defended the state’s role as necessary to preserve French interests, by ensuring that multinational tie-ups will not jeopardize jobs or weaken French companies like Renault that have long been considered national corporate icons.
The finance ministry said in a statement Thursday that it had “worked constructively” with all stakeholders and sought particularly to ensure that Nissan — with which Renault has a fraught relationship — was on board with the deal.
But collapse of the deal seemed to mar a carefully crafted image of the French president, Emmanuel Macron, as a former investment banker wooing international companies and promising a more business-friendly climate.
Since 2017, Mr. Macron rammed through a raft of changes to tax and labor rules and, crucially, vowed to take a less state-driven approach to companies. But faced with eight months of demonstrations by Yellow Vest protesters who have railed against economic inequality, his government has pivoted toward greater protectionism.
In the weeks before Fiat Chrysler announced its merger proposal, the government tried to halt the closure of several industrial sites that threatened thousands of layoffs. Earlier this year Mr. Macron dispatched Mr. Le Maire, the finance minister, to southern France to try to prevent a Ford factory from closing — partly by trying to engineer a takeover of the plant by a Belgian company in a deal that ultimately flopped.
And just days after Mr. Elkann officially proposed a tie-up with Renault, Mr. Le Maire was engaged in a last-minute scramble to prevent General Electric from cutting 1,000 jobs in France — a legacy of its 2015 merger with the French energy company Alstom.
Soon after failing to save the G.E. jobs, Mr. Le Maire added demands to his negotiations with Fiat Chrysler, including a pledge to make any potential job cuts in the United States and Italy before turning to France, a person involved in the talks said.
Renault’s top executives went into meetings on Tuesday and Wednesday expecting a deal. People familiar with the discussions said Mr. Senard and Mr. Elkann saw eye to eye on the merits of a merger.
After several hours of talks on the second day, at least 14 members of the 20-person board had voiced support for a deal. Three exceptions were the French union’s board member and Nissan’s two representatives, all who had indicated they would refrain from voting. The Nissan members were to abstain and review the terms with their parent company.
Mr. Le Maire called the government’s representative to the board, Martin Vial, by cellphone about an hour later and instructed him not to vote if the Nissan representatives withheld their vote, according to two people with knowledge of the situation.
Instead, Mr. Le Maire, who planned to fly to Tokyo on Thursday to attend meetings of the Group of Twenty over the weekend, said he wanted to use the trip to speak with the Japanese about the deal.
The conversations turned tense. Mr. Senard was shocked and warned Mr. Vial that delaying a vote could be dangerous. Mr. Senard phoned Mr. Elkann, who was in Italy, to inform him of the change, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.
Shortly after that call, Mr. Elkann and Michael Manley, the company’s chief executive, sent a letter by email to Mr. Senard and Thierry Bolloré, Renault’s chief executive. The deal was off the table.
How France’s Intrusive Demands Quashed the Fiat-Renault Deal
PARIS — It was supposed to be a transformative merger in an industry facing intractable challenges. But Fiat Chrysler and Renault ran headlong this week into a familiar problem in France: the government itself.
With the two companies edging toward a deal, officials in Paris played a role that comes naturally — safeguarding jobs and protecting Renault, a celebrated brand here. But in the end, the government infuriated both Fiat and Renault executives, who wanted to create a competitive new industrial giant free of state influence, according to two people with knowledge of the discussions.
The merger appeared to be sealed after more than four hours of negotiations on Wednesday night at a marathon Renault board meeting in Paris. Then France’s finance minister, Bruno Le Maire, stunned those present with a message that he wanted to delay the vote for five days to consult in Tokyo with his Japanese counterpart about Nissan, Renault’s partner in a decades-old carmaking alliance, two people familiar with the discussions said.
Less than 20 minutes after he heard of the request, John Elkann, the chief executive of Fiat Chrysler, quit the talks, these people said.
The collapse of negotiations leaves both companies at odds with changes in the industry. Fiat Chrysler is the seventh-largest carmaker worldwide, and Renault is the eighth. Their relatively small size makes them vulnerable as the auto industry tries a costly and uncertain transition to electric cars and vehicles loaded with driver-assistance features.
And neither Renault nor Fiat Chrysler has a strong presence in China, the world’s largest car market and one of the few regions still seen as having potential for growth.
The merger mess may have other repercussions. Renault’s chief executive, Jean-Dominique Senard, who worked with Mr. Elkann to sort through the proposal, had the backing of most of the board but was blindsided by the government’s last demand. With the deal scuppered, Mr. Senard must weigh how effective he can be at Renault, according to the people with knowledge of the situation.
The proposed deal was first revealed by Fiat a week ago. After two days of talks this week, Renault had tentatively scheduled a news conference for Thursday morning to announce an agreement.
But the French government is Renault’s largest shareholder, and has a seat on the company’s board. As talks progressed, according to two people familiar with Fiat Chrysler, the French government tried to micromanage the process.
Its insistence on a number of concessions, including job guarantees, a seat on the new company’s board as well as veto power over appointments of a future chief executive, appeared to be only the tip of the iceberg should a deal go through, according to the people with knowledge of Fiat’s position.
As the government ramped up its demands, a realization set in at Fiat Chrysler that the French state would probably never stop trying to exercise some form of control, these people said.
Trying to manage one of the world’s largest automakers under such conditions would be unacceptable, one of the people said.
Renault issued a terse statement on Thursday, expressing “its disappointment not to have the opportunity to continue to pursue the proposal of FCA (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles).” It added: “We view the opportunity as timely, having compelling industrial logic and great financial merit, and which would result in a European based global auto powerhouse.”
On Thursday, French government officials defended the state’s role as necessary to preserve French interests, by ensuring that multinational tie-ups will not jeopardize jobs or weaken French companies like Renault that have long been considered national corporate icons.
The finance ministry said in a statement Thursday that it had “worked constructively” with all stakeholders and sought particularly to ensure that Nissan — with which Renault has a fraught relationship — was on board with the deal.
But collapse of the deal seemed to mar a carefully crafted image of the French president, Emmanuel Macron, as a former investment banker wooing international companies and promising a more business-friendly climate.
Since 2017, Mr. Macron rammed through a raft of changes to tax and labor rules and, crucially, vowed to take a less state-driven approach to companies. But faced with eight months of demonstrations by Yellow Vest protesters who have railed against economic inequality, his government has pivoted toward greater protectionism.
In the weeks before Fiat Chrysler announced its merger proposal, the government tried to halt the closure of several industrial sites that threatened thousands of layoffs. Earlier this year Mr. Macron dispatched Mr. Le Maire, the finance minister, to southern France to try to prevent a Ford factory from closing — partly by trying to engineer a takeover of the plant by a Belgian company in a deal that ultimately flopped.
And just days after Mr. Elkann officially proposed a tie-up with Renault, Mr. Le Maire was engaged in a last-minute scramble to prevent General Electric from cutting 1,000 jobs in France — a legacy of its 2015 merger with the French energy company Alstom.
Soon after failing to save the G.E. jobs, Mr. Le Maire added demands to his negotiations with Fiat Chrysler, including a pledge to make any potential job cuts in the United States and Italy before turning to France, a person involved in the talks said.
Renault’s top executives went into meetings on Tuesday and Wednesday expecting a deal. People familiar with the discussions said Mr. Senard and Mr. Elkann saw eye to eye on the merits of a merger.
After several hours of talks on the second day, at least 14 members of the 20-person board had voiced support for a deal. Three exceptions were the French union’s board member and Nissan’s two representatives, all who had indicated they would refrain from voting. The Nissan members were to abstain and review the terms with their parent company.
Mr. Le Maire called the government’s representative to the board, Martin Vial, by cellphone about an hour later and instructed him not to vote if the Nissan representatives withheld their vote, according to two people with knowledge of the situation.
Instead, Mr. Le Maire, who planned to fly to Tokyo on Thursday to attend meetings of the Group of Twenty over the weekend, said he wanted to use the trip to speak with the Japanese about the deal.
The conversations turned tense. Mr. Senard was shocked and warned Mr. Vial that delaying a vote could be dangerous. Mr. Senard phoned Mr. Elkann, who was in Italy, to inform him of the change, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.
Shortly after that call, Mr. Elkann and Michael Manley, the company’s chief executive, sent a letter by email to Mr. Senard and Thierry Bolloré, Renault’s chief executive. The deal was off the table.
How France’s Intrusive Demands Quashed the Fiat-Renault Deal
Muther
Active member
Agree wholeheartedly. The Japanese are extremely protectionist. They take deep pride in their automotive industry.
There may consolidation that would happen with the Japanese auto industry, but it would all take place within Japan. Japan has never been fond of somebody else owning anything distinctly Japanese.
- Joined
- May 4, 2018
- Messages
- 1,792
- Reaction score
- 1,476
Today, on the French radio, the Minister of Industry was asked why the state caused the marriage with Fiat to fail.
The answer was very political ... to sum up it's Nissan's fault.
Then he was asked why Renault Chairman Senard accuses the state for the negotiation failure. The answer was clear ... "I will meet Senard and I will make him understand who is the boss."
The answer was very political ... to sum up it's Nissan's fault.
Then he was asked why Renault Chairman Senard accuses the state for the negotiation failure. The answer was clear ... "I will meet Senard and I will make him understand who is the boss."
UN4GTBL
Moderator
- Joined
- May 7, 2018
- Messages
- 1,083
- Reaction score
- 529
Terrifying.
Freshforged
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2018
- Messages
- 260
- Reaction score
- 167
Yup, nothing quite like organized crime eh? The Ministry of Industry is just another fancy title for mob enforcer.
It would be nice to see the Renault Alpine A110S come to the United States.
Cody's Car Conundrum
Well-known member
Especially if Dodge took that as an opportunity to remake the old Dodge Razor concept (and actually put it into production).
Freshforged
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2018
- Messages
- 260
- Reaction score
- 167
Chronic cash shortage, yes. It had gotten to the point even the shoestrings they kept the budget on for decades needed to be replaced.
- Joined
- May 4, 2018
- Messages
- 1,792
- Reaction score
- 1,476
Fca e Renault ci riprovano. Via a nuovi colloqui
La rinnovata fiducia al presidente di Renault, Jean-Dominique Senard, da parte del governo Macron spiana la strada alla riapertura dei negoziati tra Fca...
mobile.ilsole24ore.com
Translate:
According to what we learn in the last hours something would be moving between Detroit, Turin and Paris.According to some sources, the two automotive groups would like to re-open the negotiating table quickly.Yesterday Mike Manley, CEO of Fiat Chrysler, was in Paris and would meet Renault representatives to start a new dialogue. John Elkann, in this first phase, would have decided not to expose himself directly.
Freshforged
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2018
- Messages
- 260
- Reaction score
- 167
Smart—if the other side wants to play dirty, he can stand back and let others get a face full of mud. Keeps the wall street twits from freaking out.Fca e Renault ci riprovano. Via a nuovi colloqui
La rinnovata fiducia al presidente di Renault, Jean-Dominique Senard, da parte del governo Macron spiana la strada alla riapertura dei negoziati tra Fca...
Translate:
According to what we learn in the last hours something would be moving between Detroit, Turin and Paris.According to some sources, the two automotive groups would like to re-open the negotiating table quickly.Yesterday Mike Manley, CEO of Fiat Chrysler, was in Paris and would meet Renault representatives to start a new dialogue. John Elkann, in this first phase, would have decided not to expose himself directly.