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Electric Or Bust! What Is Your Opinion?

What would you choose?

  • Internal Combustion Engine (ICE)

    Votes: 33 55.0%
  • Mild-Hybrid (mHEV)

    Votes: 4 6.7%
  • Plug-In Hybrid (PHEV)

    Votes: 15 25.0%
  • Battery Electric Vehicle (BEV)

    Votes: 8 13.3%

  • Total voters
    60

patfromigh

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Minnesota is going the wrong way on the electrical infrastructure. The DFL party controls everything with the governor and solid majorities in both houses. They passed what the opposition party calls the "blackout bill." All electricity must be generated from renewable sources by a certain date. A few weeks ago the VP of the US visited Saint Cloud, MN for a propaganda event dealing with the battery electric transit busses built there. Main stream media has done a good job of covering up the charging stations exploding nation wide, even in cold weather. (Keep in mind trucks and busses often use a different battery chemistry and charging setup than battery electric cars, so don't make a direct comparison.)

The weather was warmer yesterday with temperatures in the upper 20 degrees F. (Today it was nearly 40.) Last night I got to drive a few EVs. It is a standard operating procedure in cold weather to run the front and rear defrosters when going through the car wash. I lost a few miles of range just in the car wash. With a full tank of zap the small BEVs show a 215 mile range in thirty degree F weather. I am not being sarcastic with what I'm about to say, if I was going to own an EV , I would also have to invest in a snowmobile suit. That same suit will be useful when the transit bus bricks under arctic weather conditions.

I looked for the new Fiat 500e at the Chicago auto show, but it was pulled from the venue at the last moment. Stellantis didn't say why.
 

patfromigh

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Let me add this. Stellantis Media - Stellantis Announces $155 Million Investment in Three Indiana Plants to Support North American Electrification Goals

Stellantis Announces $155 Million Investment in Three Indiana Plants to Support North American Electrification Goals​

  • Company to localize production of new electric drive module (EDM) in Kokomo
  • EDM provides all-in-one solution for electric-vehicle powertrains, delivering improved performance at competitive cost
  • Investments to be made at Indiana Transmission, Kokomo Transmission and Kokomo Casting plants
  • More than 265 jobs retained
  • Total investments in Indiana since 2020 to support electrification goals grow to nearly $3.3 billion, including gigafactory joint venture with Samsung SDI
  • Announcement aligns with company’s long-term strategy to reach 50% U.S. battery-electric vehicle sales by 2030, starting with the first fully electric Ram vehicles from 2023 and Jeep® from 2024

 

TripleT

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Bad news for Illinois, State with the better business climate on the I-65 corridor is getting the capacity.
 

patfromigh

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I'm becoming more involved with the battery electrics in our fleet. I now make sure there is a full tank of zap before the vehicle is available for rental, since my supervisor gave me the responsibility. I'm mostly dealing with our small EVs, which are Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro, and Nissan Leaf models. Our facility has a row of spaces with level 2 chargers. Last night I plugged in a Kona with a quarter tank of zap in it. I always check the instrument panel to make sure everything is properly connected and operating. The dash screen readout stated fully charged in nine and a half hours. 🔌⚡⏰🤯
 

TripleT

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First half tank was a effective 42 mpg, and second with a 4 hour round trip was 34. Never saw north of 22 on my Durango v6 or 25.5 on my Stelvio. Oddly enough I have seen 26.5 on my Scat Pack on Interstate trip with moderate traffic that kept my mph under 75.

On thing to note is you can't use the Jeep computer, it assumes all electric miles at 54mpg, which undersells it versions other PHEVs.
 

patfromigh

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First half tank was a effective 42 mpg, and second with a 4 hour round trip was 34.
Auto makers no longer need to keep banging out a constant stream of econo-boxes to meet CAFE. When a Jeep Grand Cherokee delivers this kind of fuel economy to the buyer, while providing a rich return to the manufacturer, the game has definitely changed.
 

TripleT

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Auto makers no longer need to keep banging out a constant stream of econo-boxes to meet CAFE. When a Jeep Grand Cherokee delivers this kind of fuel economy to the buyer, while providing a rich return to the manufacturer, the game has definitely changed.
They are short on those now, plus the margins are awful. American equate small to cheap, which isn't something that not true say in the EU. Where 500 is a premium A model. So besides the Compass they really don't make any economy models.
 

UN4GTBL

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First half tank was a effective 42 mpg, and second with a 4 hour round trip was 34. Never saw north of 22 on my Durango v6 or 25.5 on my Stelvio. Oddly enough I have seen 26.5 on my Scat Pack on Interstate trip with moderate traffic that kept my mph under 75.

On thing to note is you can't use the Jeep computer, it assumes all electric miles at 54mpg, which undersells it versions other PHEVs.

Prius-shmius

That's really good!

What's the temperature been like where you are? I've heard the JL 4xe forces the gas engine when it's colder out, so just curious how that will work out?
 

TripleT

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Prius-shmius

That's really good!

What's the temperature been like where you are? I've heard the JL 4xe forces the gas engine when it's colder out, so just curious how that will work out?
We are running 45-25 this time of year, I have done a stint of 30miles pure electric.
 

John Ireland

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EVs are never going to be the answer for everyone...and the governments and the industry should stop trying to force them down our throats. Particularly since they are not nearly as carbon neutral as they would have us to believe. The US and global electrical grid is 3 or more decades away from being able to handle the energy demands of EV autos. In California (where I live) the grid can't even handle summer air conditioning use. I'm just going to keep driving my ICE Giulia and watch the world have a rude awakening.
 

TripleT

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It definitely that answer when you want to be able the control individual's movement and Energy use. Your personal ESG score falls too low, all of a sudden one can't travel, is a heck a attitude adjustment. I refuse to believe those making these CARB related decisions are unaware that production capacity, the transmission capacity, the net carbon reality are no where close to full operational ready within the 28 to 35 phase in timeline. Given that one has to look toward other motivations. When being able to take millions of people off the road with a single switch is possibility, those interested in control find that extremely enticing. This already happen elsewhere in the world, and already here with home climate. None of this is Market driven.
 

Moparound

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Would like to confirm if am understanding correctly or not please.

Are the ordering banks for ALL Chargers and Challengers closing or is the ordering banks for the ‘Last Call’ edition models closing?

Appreciate any/ all responses please.
 

Moparound

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Guess I asked a taboo question? Forgive me, the news kinda caught me off-guard. My local dealership confirmed the end is near.
All orders must be placed EXTREMELY soon; think we're down to mere days now?
Looking forward to the next chapter but still hoping one day a roaring powerful V-8 will reside under the hood of a Mopar sedan, coupe, etc.
 

TripleT

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Fo
Guess I asked a taboo question? Forgive me, the news kinda caught me off-guard. My local dealership confirmed the end is near.
All orders must be placed EXTREMELY soon; think we're down to mere days now?
Looking forward to the next chapter but still hoping one day a roaring powerful V-8 will reside under the hood of a Mopar sedan, coupe, etc.
CARB states are basically banning the ICE engines for 2028 with punitive Taxes... that is already on the escalating fines from the EPA of about $2100 per Hemi car.

In the Non=Carb states the Hurricane is coming. While I understand there is something wonderful about the sound of V8 but honestly the Hurricane is a better powerplant is better in every single way but the spinning mufflers choke the sound down. I wouldn't rule out a future very low volume vehicles with help from their Italian cousins but the Hurricane already has 1500hp race versions from Mopar, so it has giant potential even has a street engine. I love my ticking 392 put I not paying a $2500 fine to be slower and louder.
 

Jared B

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Would like to confirm if am understanding correctly or not please.

Are the ordering banks for ALL Chargers and Challengers closing or is the ordering banks for the ‘Last Call’ edition models closing?

Appreciate any/ all responses please.

All, can't order a current-gen Challenger/Charger or 300 after this month.
 

patfromigh

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Here is an article from the Stellantis Fleet newsletter which arrived in my inbox this morning. I would think with email I should get news that's dated later than May, oh well. Forgive me is this has already been posted elsewhere.

Stellantis Invests in Lyten’s Breakthrough Lithium-sulfur EV Battery Technology

Lyten is a Silicon Valley-based pioneer of tunable three-dimensional graphene, which has demonstrated significant reductions in greenhouse gas emissions and will advance the transition to sustainable mobility

Stellantis and Lyten to develop applications for advanced lithium-sulfur-based EV batteries, vehicle lightweighting and enhanced vehicle-sensing solutions

Lithium-sulfur batteries have the potential to deliver more than twice the energy density of lithium-ion and represent an alternative, non-nickel-manganese-cobalt cathode solution

Stellantis exploring all battery technology to meet the diverse needs of its broad customer base and ensure clean, safe and affordable mobility

Lyten is a Silicon Valley-based pioneer of tunable three-dimensional graphene, which has demonstrated significant reductions in greenhouse gas emissions and will advance the transition to sustainable mobility.

May 25, 2023, Amsterdam / San Jose, Calif. -

Stellantis N.V. and Lyten, Inc. announced today that Stellantis Ventures, the corporate venture fund of Stellantis, invested in Lyten to accelerate the commercialization of Lyten 3D Graphene applications for the mobility industry, including the LytCell lithium-sulfur EV battery, lightweighting composites and novel on-board sensing. Lyten, a pioneer of 3D Graphene, will leverage the unique tunability of the material to enable enhanced vehicle performance and customer experience while decarbonizing the transportation sector.
Lyten’s tunable materials platform has demonstrated significant reductions in greenhouse gas emissions and will advance the transition to sustainable mobility.
Unlike traditional lithium-ion batteries, Lyten’s lithium-sulfur batteries do not use nickel, cobalt or manganese, resulting in an estimated 60% lower carbon footprint than today’s best-in-class batteries and a pathway to achieve the lowest emissions EV battery on the global market. Raw materials for lithium-sulfur batteries have the potential to be sourced and produced locally in North America or Europe, enhancing regional supply sovereignty. This technology will meet the needs of industries seeking lightweight and energy-dense batteries that are free from supply chain disruptions.

Stellantis launched Stellantis Ventures in 2022 as a venture capital fund committed to investing in early and later- stage startup companies developing innovative and sustainable technologies within the automotive and mobility sectors. Stellantis Ventures, powered by an initial €300 million in funding, is a key component of the company’s Dare Forward 2030†̄strategic plan, which sets out core targets for Stellantis, including deep emission cuts to slash CO2 in half by 2030, benchmarking the 2021 metrics, and achieving carbon net zero by 2038 with single-digit percentage compensation of the remaining emissions.

“We are delighted that Stellantis Ventures, as the venture investment arm of a global automotive innovator, has demonstrated a strong belief in our company and our Lyten 3D Graphene decarbonizing supermaterials,” said Dan Cook, president and CEO of Lyten. “Among the automotive product innovations being transformed by Lyten 3D Graphene are lithium-sulfur batteries with the potential to deliver more than twice the energy density of lithium-ion, payload-improving lightweighted vehicle composites, and new modes of sensing that do not require chips, batteries or wires. We are committed to advancing each of these applications to Stellantis and the automotive market.”
Cook continued: “Unlike two-dimensional forms of graphene, the production of our tunable Lyten 3D Graphene has been independently verified to be carbon neutral at scale. We are converting greenhouse gases into a new class of high-performance, high-value carbon materials and are incorporating these tuned materials into applications that will decarbonize the hardest to abate sectors on the planet.”

“Having recently visited Lyten together with our CTO Ned Curic and our head of Stellantis Ventures Adam Bazih, we walked away impressed by the potential of this technology to help drive clean, safe and affordable mobility,” said Carlos Tavares, Stellantis CEO. “Lyten’s materials platform is a key investment for Stellantis Ventures, in line with our Dare Forward 2030 goal to accelerate deployment of innovative, customer-centric technologies. Specifically, Lyten’s lithium-sulfur battery has the potential to be a key ingredient in enabling mass-market EV adoption globally, and their material technology is equally well positioned to help reduce vehicle weight, which is all necessary for our industry to achieve carbon net zero goals.”

With traditional lithium-ion battery materials in critically short supply for EV manufacturing, Lyten’s lithium-sulfur battery will offer an alternative, non-nickel-manganese-cobalt cathode solution that supports the global transition to electric vehicles at mass market scale. Lyten’s goal is to provide a secure supply of performance-based and environmentally sustainable products to its customers, while also enabling auto manufacturers to take advantage of growing U.S. and European policy incentives, such as those referenced in the Inflation Reduction Act.

Lyten’s lithium-sulfur battery, composites and sensor technologies are initially being produced on its 145,000-square- foot campus in Silicon Valley. Apart from producing EV batteries, Lyten is working with previous customers to start delivering lithium-sulfur batteries and 3D Graphene-infused composites for specialty markets in 2023. Lyten is collaborating with its strategic investors from across multiple industries to apply Lyten 3D Graphene materials to decarbonize additional, carbon intensive sectors beyond transportation, with more announcements planned for later this year.

Lyten 3D Graphene
Lyten 3D Graphene is a proprietary, tunable decarbonization supermaterial engineered from natural gas. Lyten’s 3D Graphene is similar to two-dimensional graphene in many of its valuable properties; however, 3D Graphene can be orders of magnitude more chemically and electrically reactive while also being highly tunable due to its three- dimensional morphology. The processes and equipment to engineer three-dimensional graphene materials are proprietary technological inventions patented by Lyten. Lyten will scale its initial output from its San Jose, California, facility and will soon explore locations for a second phase of output capacity.

LytCell EV Lithium-sulfur Battery
LytCell is Lyten’s proprietary lithium-sulfur battery that uses Lyten 3D Graphene to address the polysulfide shuttle challenges associated with sulfur, leading to a higher-performance battery that will have more than twice the energy density, and enables extended driving range compared to conventional EV batteries. Unlike lithium-ion and solid-state batteries, LytCell does not use expensive and scarce nickel or cobalt, will have an estimated 60%-plus lower carbon footprint than best-in-class lithium-ion, and an estimated 40% lower carbon footprint than solid state. The LytCell will be domestically and sustainably sourced, liberating manufacturers and consumers from supply chain risks and environmentally unsound mining issues associated with nickel-manganese-cobalt (NMC) oxide materials.

LytR
LytR is Lyten’s unique thermoplastic formulation – infused with Lyten 3D Graphene – that reduces up to half the weight and materials required while maintaining or improving strength and performance. When Lyten 3D Graphene is tuned for dispersion into polyethylene, as with the LytR material, it significantly strengthens the thermoplastics’ chemical and physical properties, thereby requiring less polyethylene material and reducing the carbon footprint by up to 55%.

Lyten
Lyten is a materials innovation and applications company and the pioneer of the Lyten 3D Graphene materials platform. Lyten’s decarbonization supermaterials are being tuned for a wide range of applications, including the next- generation lithium-sulfur batteries for use in the automotive, aerospace, defense, and other markets; a next- generation LytR polymer composite that can reduce the amount of plastic used by up to half while maintaining structural and impact strength; and next-generation sensor arrays that significantly increase detection sensitivity and selectivity for use in automotive, industrial, health, and safety applications.
 
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John477

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Hate to say it, but we've little choice.

But for those of a certain age, will recall when we had similar misgivings about fuel injection a few decades ago (we can't work on our own cars, etc).

Listen, NOTHING will ever be able to replicate the sound of a HEMI at full howl... but maybe they don't need to.
Very true.
Little to no infrastructure.
Hybrid is for this era.
Build the infrastructure, refine the tech.
Then electric. For the controlled.
Controllers will continue in jets and ICE vehicles w vanity plates: eat my carbon.
 

TripleT

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Very true.
Little to no infrastructure.
Hybrid is for this era.
Build the infrastructure, refine the tech.
Then electric. For the controlled.
Controllers will continue in jets and ICE vehicles w vanity plates: eat my carbon.
The Controllers are perfectly fine pushing you to public transport while they take their Yacht, private plane, and Limousine to make decisions for you.
 

patfromigh

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We recently added some battery electric BMW 4-door sedans to our fleet. They're all electric and larger then a 3-series. I couldn't figure out the chrome alphabet soup on the trunk lid, so I won't say what the exact model is. They were placed on the line for customer pickup without being charged. I was handed the keys to the one and told to take down to our chargers. It had a 2% charge and 6 miles of range. When I got to the charging station I had 4 miles of range. I traveled a distance about 1 kilometer. I got to see BMW's version of the turtle icon. I've seen videos of Fiat's turtle icon, didn't know others had that as well. The turtle appears when a car goes into a low power mode to crawl to the nearest outlet.

I did make to the charging station and was able to plug it in successfully. We only have Level 2 (240V AC) charging in our facility, we're not rich and homeland security already has enough dangers to worry about at the airport. I checked the instrument panel on the BMW and it said the car would be fully charged at 2:20 PM on 12/08. I checked my phone and it said the current time is 2:24 PM and the date is 2/04. The BMW does have the A CCS receptacle for high speed charging. I have no idea what the battery range is when fully charged. I'll have to check the dash when I go to work on Friday.
 

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