Dodge Is Working On A New Performance UV To Replace Journey:

Dodge Is Working On A New Performance UV To Replace Journey:
New UV Vehicle To Feature HEMI Power...

Dodge Is Working On A New Performance UV To Replace Journey:

With the Journey and Grand Caravan running on borrowed time, the future of the Dodge brand has been questioned by many fans since only three models will remain (Charger, Challenger, and Durango). While performance models are said to be in the works like a Durango SRT Hellcat model and a...

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[TripleT]

The only difference b/w the GM "minivans" like acadia/traverse you berate and the current dodge durango is looks, V8, RWD bias. Explorer just copied current durango, so there is something right with the formula. So now the Durango is going BOF and with it will come decreased "performance" methinks. Is the GC 3row going to replace the current durango in reality?

There are a million 2 row mid-sized CUVs to choose from already. Dodge will be competing with Jeep as well as the rest of the industry here and newcomers like Mustang MachE. I don't see much practical difference between a sedan and these midsize 2 row CUVs similar to how you see little different between 3 row SUVs and minivans i suppose.

have you driven GM minivans vs a Durango.... those little differences you minimized are giant in driving dynamics. Durango has another 3 years as it is.

and CUV vs Sedan.... cargo, driving position, comfort.... are actually giant not practice and why the sedan is dying

 

[Deckard Cain]

The only difference b/w the GM "minivans" like acadia/traverse you berate and the current dodge durango is looks, V8, RWD bias.

So the "only" difference, according to you, are three huge differences. Are you even american? You're minimizing a V8 as a small difference?
And RWD versus FWD for a performance oriented brand is very important.

The BoF Durango will be a great model. Yes, it will probably handle worse than the current one, but the Journey successor will pick-up that positioning of performance SUV.
Who knows, maybe they'll toss some kid-seats third row to appease people like you.

As for Jeep, I thought the Wagoneer was going to be a five row version of the Grand Wagoneer?

 

[TripleT]

With Independent suspension on all 4 corners will the BOF on frame Durango be that far off the current model. Most likely but because of weight and size. But that 3rd row should be even more useable.

 

[Bili]

How much bigger new Durango will be? Some BOF models are even smaller inside than a current Durango.

BOF vs unibody? BOF adds higher weight, worse packaging, higher center of gravity... If they are at same evolutionary step unibody will be better for road use.

 

[TripleT]

Everyone raves about the handling and dynamics of the RAM1500. With the Independent suspension for the Wagoneer coming. Evolving for the Dodge with lower ride heights it should be awesome. Better then current maybe not but with 4 years of development they could get close.

 

[Ryan]

Everyone raves about the handling and dynamics of the RAM1500. With the Independent suspension for the Wagoneer coming. Evolving for the Dodge with lower ride heights it should be awesome. Better then current maybe not but with 4 years of development they could get close.

I don't mind the idea of a BoF Durango, but it does feel like moving backwards in a way. We aren't talking about improving driving dynamics, but trying to get as close to the current driving behavior as possible from a BoF vehicle. I'd almost rather see the midsize 2-row Dodge crossover called Durango and move the BoF "Durango" SUV to Chrysler as an all new model, so nobody can say the dynamics were downgraded from one generation to the next.

 

[TripleT]

I don't mind the idea of a BoF Durango, but it does feel like moving backwards in a way. We aren't talking about improving driving dynamics, but trying to get as close to the current driving behavior as possible from a BoF vehicle. I'd almost rather see the midsize 2-row Dodge crossover called Durango and move the BoF "Durango" SUV to Chrysler as an all new model, so nobody can say the dynamics were downgraded from one generation to the next.

Towing and interior room will be superior.

 

[TripleT]

This won't make the Dodge 3 row people happy but I think a Long version with the nose of a Chrysler to replace the 300 with 3 rows would be a interesting product.

 

[Ryan]

This won't make the Dodge 3 row people happy but I think a Long version with the nose of a Chrysler to replace the 300 with 3 rows would be a interesting product.

At that point, it could probably share a line with the 3-row Grand Cherokee, right?

 

[Chrismopar]

At that point, it could probably share a line with the 3-row Grand Cherokee, right?

No, I think if they do what Ryan is suggesting the Chrysler would share a line with the Grand Wagoneer. I like the idea if a business case and capacity can support it. It wood be like Ford with Expedition, Expedition Max and Lincoln with Navigator and Navigator L. The FCA eqevalant might be Dodge Durango and Chrysler Aspen, Jeep Wagoneer and Jeep Grand Wagoneer all BOF. Durango and Wagoneer swb, Aspen and Grand Wagoneer lwb. Dodge and Chrysler less expensive then the Jeeps.

 

[Ryan]

No, I think if they do what Ryan is suggesting the Chrysler would share a line with the Grand Wagoneer. I like the idea if a business case and capacity can support it. It wood be like Ford with Expedition, Expedition Max and Lincoln with Navigator and Navigator L. The FCA eqevalant might be Dodge Durango and Chrysler Aspen, Jeep Wagoneer and Jeep Grand Wagoneer all BOF. Durango and Wagoneer swb, Aspen and Grand Wagoneer lwb. Dodge and Chrysler less expensive then the Jeeps.

I'd be fine with that too.

 

[Rustydodge]

So the "only" difference, according to you, are three huge differences. Are you even american? You're minimizing a V8 as a small difference?
And RWD versus FWD for a performance oriented brand is very important.

The BoF Durango will be a great model. Yes, it will probably handle worse than the current one, but the Journey successor will pick-up that positioning of performance SUV.
Who knows, maybe they'll toss some kid-seats third row to appease people like you.

As for Jeep, I thought the Wagoneer was going to be a five row version of the Grand Wagoneer?

In regards to dimensions, utility, interior space, etc they are practically the same vehicles. But you are actually proving my point. There is no reason this new CUV has to go from 3 rows down to 2 if they maintain a proper "performance" oriented or available offering (which is sounds like they will) like they do currently with the durango.

I obviously bought a V8 durango RT over the other ho-hum 3 rows out there and proceeded to put larger 32" all terrains and bronze hellcat replica rims on it - so yes I'm an American

I agree the new BOF durango should be a fantastic vehicle - we may upgrade to it as i don't have the appetite for overpriced Jeeps. I'm just arguing that i believe there would be still room within the Dodge brand to have a smaller current journey/durango sized 3 row "perfromance" CUV/SUV.

My understanding is Wagoneer is tahoe sized 3 row and Grand Wagoneer is suburban sized 3 row.

 

[Rustydodge]

have you driven GM minivans vs a Durango.... those little differences you minimized are giant in driving dynamics. Durango has another 3 years as it is.

and CUV vs Sedan.... cargo, driving position, comfort.... are actually giant not practice and why the sedan is dying

Hello - I have a 2015 Durango RT in my sig - i know the driving differences between them and choose accordingly with my own hard earned money.

They have very little to no difference in utility, interior space - things important to most people in the market for this segment. Durango is actually slightly disadvantaged here with non sliding 2nd row captains and lack of storage - especially in the front.

This is why I'm arguing for Dodge to maintain its 3 row offering.

This won't make the Dodge 3 row people happy but I think a Long version with the nose of a Chrysler to replace the 300 with 3 rows would be a interesting product.

I'd be 100% for this. Especially if it has 300 stance/presence.

 

[TripleT]

Hello - I have a 2015 Durango RT in my sig - i know the driving differences between them and choose accordingly with my own hard earned money.

They have very little to no difference in utility, interior space - things important to most people in the market for this segment. Durango is actually slightly disadvantaged here with non sliding 2nd row captains and lack of storage - especially in the front.

This is why I'm arguing for Dodge to maintain its 3 row offering.



I'd be 100% for this. Especially if it has 300 stance/presence.

Pacifica is the winner then... The GMs are not in the same class, they are slightly less useful Minivans with a SUV styling. Dodge is not the appliance brand anymore. The Durango is SUV not CUV it actually can go off road and be used as a Truck. The Journey is a dinosaur, its replacement will rightly be a Chrysler.... I am not arguing either, it what is happening. What this tread is about is a NEW vehicle in the FCA lineup that fit the current definition of the Dodge brand. If it out soon enough it will be my next vehicle, I more likely to buy a Alfa or Porsche, or BMW as anything in the Journey class.... That segment is crowded with Korean Knock offs and Soulless Japanese appliances.

 

[Rustydodge]

Pacifica is the winner then... The GMs are not in the same class, they are slightly less useful Minivans with a SUV styling. Dodge is not the appliance brand anymore. The Durango is SUV not CUV it actually can go off road and be used as a Truck. The Journey is a dinosaur, its replacement will rightly be a Chrysler.... I am not arguing either, it what is happening. What this tread is about is a NEW vehicle in the FCA lineup that fit the current definition of the Dodge brand. If it out soon enough it will be my next vehicle, I more likely to buy a Alfa or Porsche, or BMW as anything in the Journey class.... That segment is crowded with Korean Knock offs and Soulless Japanese appliances.

A) Durango is not much for offroad though the RT at least and maybe citadel V8? has same t-case as Grand Cherokee. Too much low plastic. Larger tires have helped slightly. It does do good in snow. No alternate terrain settings.
B) Durango is definitely not a truck. I have a durango and a truck precisely b/c durango is not a truck.
C) People looking for a 3 row CUV/SUV are not going to want a minivan - just ask my wife or any of her friends
D) Lets look at the 3 row midsized SUV market and offering 2019 YTD, GM vs FCA, to see if my wife is unique....

GM
Enclave 41K +16.4%
XT6 4K (new)
Traverse 113.5K +6.1%
Acadia 80K +26%

FCA
Journey 62K -19%
Durango 52.5K +6%

OK so lets see if 3row customers prefer an FCA minivans like they do 3row SUVs:
Caravan 99.5K -18K
Pacifica 70k -23%

Yes i understand this is just a snapshot of 1 yr.

So whether you view the GM offering as minivans or not, consumers dont. Obviously they don't all want to buy a minivan. And i don't think these customers are buying a GM 3row SUV just because GM doesn't have a good minivan.

E) I agree journey is a dinosaur (followed pretty closely by the durango)
F) I'm happy there is going to be a new vehicle in the FCA lineup. I'm not to impressed though by FCA's midsized 3row SUV offering. It is basically the Durango (which they don't give much production capacity or attention to marketing/sales wise) or nothing (unless you count the dinosaur/rental based Journey which I do as it is FCA's best selling 3row SUV).
G) I believe FCA is working to address the 3row SUV deficiency - albeit with high price point Jeeps.

 

[TripleT]

A) Durango is not much for offroad though the RT at least and maybe citadel V8? has same t-case as Grand Cherokee. Too much low plastic. Larger tires have helped slightly. It does do good in snow. No alternate terrain settings.
B) Durango is definitely not a truck. I have a durango and a truck precisely b/c durango is not a truck.
C) People looking for a 3 row CUV/SUV are not going to want a minivan - just ask my wife or any of her friends
D) Lets look at the 3 row midsized SUV market and offering 2019 YTD, GM vs FCA, to see if my wife is unique....

GM
Enclave 41K +16.4%
XT6 4K (new)
Traverse 113.5K +6.1%
Acadia 80K +26%

FCA
Journey 62K -19%
Durango 52.5K +6%

OK so lets see if 3row customers prefer an FCA minivans like they do 3row SUVs:
Caravan 99.5K -18K
Pacifica 70k -23%

Yes i understand this is just a snapshot of 1 yr.

So whether you view the GM offering as minivans or not, consumers dont. Obviously they don't all want to buy a minivan. And i don't think these customers are buying a GM 3row SUV just because GM doesn't have a good minivan.

E) I agree journey is a dinosaur (followed pretty closely by the durango)
F) I'm happy there is going to be a new vehicle in the FCA lineup. I'm not to impressed though by FCA's midsized 3row SUV offering. It is basically the Durango (which they don't give much production capacity or attention to marketing/sales wise) or nothing (unless you count the dinosaur/rental based Journey which I do as it is FCA's best selling 3row SUV).
G) I believe FCA is working to address the 3row SUV deficiency - albeit with high price point Jeeps.

Oh, geez it is a truck, it structurally designed to the standard for truck usage. It is a true SUV not CUV despite off road specific transmission
I don't care what GM has convinced people their minivans are, CUV... they are all just cars with SUV styling. It clever but doesn't change what they truly are.
arguing to enter a crowded field isn't that strong a argument, Please don't compare volumes of the capacity limited Durango to over capacity GM models. Mostly people do prefer CUVs to Minivans AND sedans... yes. But no doubt based on usability the Pacifica is actually MUCH better the GM models. Hauling cargo and moving people.

G. is your best point.... YES exactly.

the question is will FCA enter the crowded market you advocate.... They have been pretty squishy on that so far, but it likely will be and will be Chrysler.

What we are getting from Dodge is to compete against BMW, Alfa, Porche, Lexus, not the GMs ......... I have been waiting for that models.... Rear bias, rear dynamics. Tall wagon body....

 

[Rustydodge]

Oh, geez it is a truck, it structurally designed to the standard for truck usage. It is a true SUV not CUV despite off road specific transmission
I don't care what GM has convinced people their minivans are, CUV... they are all just cars with SUV styling. It clever but doesn't change what they truly are.
arguing to enter a crowded field isn't that strong a argument, Please don't compare volumes of the capacity limited Durango to over capacity GM models. Mostly people do prefer CUVs to Minivans AND sedans... yes. But no doubt based on usability the Pacifica is actually MUCH better the GM models. Hauling cargo and moving people.

G. is your best point.... YES exactly.

the question is will FCA enter the crowded market you advocate.... They have been pretty squishy on that so far, but it likely will be and will be Chrysler.

What we are getting from Dodge is to compete against BMW, Alfa, Porche, Lexus, not the GMs ......... I have been waiting for that models.... Rear bias, rear dynamics. Tall wagon body....

HA - the durango is a truck....good one. I own a durango and i own a truck. The durango is not a truck. The unibody does not haul or tow like a truck, despite their GVWR being similar on paper. It does good for what it is - no question. Everyone that rides with us complements our durango.

All i'm advocated is that Dodge maintains it's 3 row midsized offering - not enter it as you state (they are already in it) . But looks like instead they are going from 2 to 0 (journey - bye, durango - fullsize BOF in a few years?).

FCA is though entering the crowded fullsize 3 row market, and entered the crowded midsized truck market. Both of those markets currently have dominate players. Both of those markets FCA should be able to enter successfully.

Durango is the current dominate 3 row performance SUV for the money. Dodge can win in the 3row non-premium/luxury segment.

In any case, this thread is not actually about a Journey replacement apparently despite being titled otherwise - so my rambling must be off-topic.

 

[Mopar392]

A mid-sizer UV from Dodge would be similar to Jeep GC, but could also be different depending on the platform. I sure hope it would ride on L-platform instead of a WL-platform.

I sure like a BOF SUV not because of off-roading, since the most off-roading I'd do is a gravel road, but because I can lift it and install a 35 or 37 wheels. I like the SW version of the GMC/Chevy or Expedition more than the current Durango, since it rides a little be higher and look taller. You can call me a bias but I won't buy any of them because they are not FCA product.

 

[TripleT]

Grand Cherokee and Durango are trucks despite being unibody. You can own 2000 of them and still incorrectly define them. They are built to a durability standards to truck tasks, have a flat load floor, and structure for off road use. They are true SUV, a SUV is a truck it is the defining difference between that of a CUV which is a car with a SUV style body on it. Really can have this discussion if one cannot understand this.

Dodge is also lossing a second 3 row soon the Caravan which also doesn’t fit the brand image...... why can’t there be a performance minivan

 

[redriderbob]

At that point, it could probably share a line with the 3-row Grand Cherokee, right?

The 3-row Grand Cherokee (WL75) and will be followed by the next-generation Grand Cherokee (WL74) at Mack. Durango will stay like it is until 2023 when it will join Wagoneer (WS) on the body on frame platform. Durango will get some new powertrain options before the switch over... HELLCAT and eTorque options in 2021.

This new UV will be more car like according to Mike V. and will probably be replacing the 300 at Brampton.