Dodge’s Next Vehicle Will Be A SUV Dubbed The “Hornet” For 2023:

AlexB · Jun 8, 2021

Archknight said:
I think you meant CX3 or CX30, around the size of the Compass, Crosstrek, etc--which isn't a bad place to start. Maybe with Mazda's push upmarket, Dodge as a niche player can actually get some of that same treatment from Stellantis, at least on the interior treatment.

Currently with the Compass sitting at almost $25K at entry, where would this sit considering its platform mate is likely to sit at over $30K? Also, with every model being exclusive to NA, they could use higher grade materials. Setting it directly at models like the Encore GX and Countryman.

Thank you @Archknight
Mazda was also Sporty brand that they attempting to make richer. Evolve Dodge performance with the factor of Elegance &Richness could be a great way forward.

You real great point about size, from the rumors next Cherokee will be position as Midsize CUV (think Edge & Blazer).

UN4GTBL · Jun 8, 2021

So a small FWD (w/AWD option) CUV with a sloping rear design and a 1.5T, maybe the 2.0T?

I'll pass.

TripleT · Jun 8, 2021

UN4GTBL said:
So a small FWD (w/AWD option) CUV with a sloping rear design and a 1.5T, maybe the 2.0T?

I'll pass.

Well if your not going to buy one they shouldn't make it

I can afford it big sister, but I don't want to dictate what other can buy.

AlexB · Jun 8, 2021

TripleT said:
Well if your not going to buy one they shouldn't make it

I can afford it big sister, but I don't want to dictate what other can buy.

and it not being successful does add fuel to the fire that Stellantis shouldn’t make CUV’s & SUV’s outside of the Jeep brand at the legacy CDJR Dealer Network.

“Beggars can't be choosers”.

patfromigh · Jun 8, 2021

Chevrolet dropped their Volt plugin leaving a void in the market. I believe this small Dodge with a plugin hybrid power train can fill in some of the void.The Volt was a range extended EV, which is a different technology platform from the PHEV technology used on the Compass 4Xe, RAV4 Prime and Ford Escape plugin hybrids.

I also hope the Dodge can come in at a reasonable price.

Bili · Jun 9, 2021

Do not expect Coupeish or lines from Hornet if it stays on Small Wide v2.0 and if it's Made in Italy.
Coupe-sedan-SUVs may come with PSA bones. That's what I've heard.

@patfromigh

Although Micky Bly has the same role at Stellantis as he did at FCA, there is no desire from ex-PSA part of the group to pursue PHEV or REEV powertrains in the future although Micky would like to offer them. Actually this is in the documents. By 2030 it will be either BEV or ICE/MHEV. So PHEVs for ex FCA will have a very short lifespan unless something dramatically changes.

With this in mind I would not exclude solution where Hornet may be first but also the last Dodge PHEV. I'm just looking at some ex-FCA BEV projects which are already killed by Tavares.

patfromigh · Jun 9, 2021

What is the transmission used in the Jeep Renegade/Compass PHEV? The road tests are saying it is a 6-speed automatic. The unit in the PSA plugin hybrids is an 8-speed Aisin imported from Japan. In place of the torque converter is a multi-disc clutch and an electric motor. I know that will be replaced by the Punch dual clutch unit in the future. I'm just curious what the Jeep front drive 4Xe uses for a transmission. I also think the electric motor with the 4Xe front transaxle is mounted along side the transmission. Exact details are hard to find.

Bili · Jun 9, 2021

patfromigh said:
What is the transmission used in the Jeep Renegade/Compass PHEV? The road tests are saying it is a 6-speed automatic. The unit in the PSA plugin hybrids is an 8-speed Aisin imported from Japan. In place of the torque converter is a multi-disc clutch and an electric motor. I know that will be replaced by the Punch dual clutch unit in the future. I'm just curious what the Jeep front drive 4Xe uses for a transmission. I also think the electric motor with the 4Xe front transaxle is mounted along side the transmission. Exact details are hard to find.

FCA's system is a P4 PHEV which means that transmission has nothing to do with a PHEV system. Basically front and rear wheels have two independent systems. Full electric at the rear with classic internal combustion engine at the front. At this moment ICE is connected to an old Aisin 6 speed auto.
This means that FCA Small Wide PHEV models are actually RWD in electric mode.

On the other hand PSA with Aisin 8 speed is a P2 PHEV. This means that electric motor is on the transmission input. It's FWD only because PSA doesn't offer mechanical AWD.
There is an optional and much more expensive P2P4 PHEV from PSA. This one combined solution from P2 and PHEV systems. This is so called "performance PHEV".

Punch is not a dual clutch. How it could be when it has only one clutch? Thus I call it a fake DCT.
What we can read from official documents Punch is late by at least 12 months. PSA will use it for both P2 MHEV and P2 PHEV.

FCA should offer P2 MHEV on Small Wide cars roughly a year before PSA part of Stellantis reaches this capability. But his happens when you opt for Chinese owned supplier which no one uses.

patfromigh · Jun 9, 2021

If Dodge uses the same hybrid system as its Jeep cousins, that will be fine with me. I don't know what the actual manufacturing costs are involved with the hybrid unit in the Chrysler Pacifica. I'm thinking of what could be used if Ram decides to sell the Toro/ 1000 here.

ZF held a virtual media day because of the pandemic. In one of the presentations one of the executives stated that ZF is only developing 48V for traditional HEV systems and high voltage for PHEVs. High voltage hybrids which don't have a battery only mode, such as the Toyota Prius and Ford Maverick are obsolete. I think the reason the Ford and Toyota systems are still offered is that they have been around long enough to cover the development costs.

Bili · Jun 9, 2021

@patfromigh

Yes, basically all 48 V P2 MHEV are more similar to HEV in their operation than to a belt driven mild hybrids. Actually with advent of P2 MHEVs systems like one used by Toyota will be obsolete.

You can call it 48V HEV because they will offer similar functionalities as HEV. I had hard time to explain on another forum.

I'm very enthusiastic about 48V P2 hybrids.

I think that we know what is ZF developing for the 4th gen ZF 8HP.
Do you have a link of this presentation?

I know that ex-FCA had a lot of deals with ZF for electrification tech but I'm not sure that PSA, ehm Stellantis, share this. Actually some of their actions made me think otherwise. PSA or now Stellantis have a plan to have all or almost all of electrification tech production in house or through JV. Their goal is production cost and availability while performance is very low at priority list.

BWS · Jun 9, 2021

TripleT said:
this is isn't a place for people to troll go back to ALL other site for moPAR.

So sorry. Please forgive me.

patfromigh · Jun 9, 2021

Bili said:
Do you have a link of this presentation?

This is the ZF YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKFB9w8mLD5DcSqnYY7bVzg

TripleT · Jun 10, 2021

BWS said:
So sorry. Please forgive me.

what's your username on that sister site?

It is interesting that one mention quality, in my years work for the auto-industry I have never seen worse then what happens at Nissan yet people seem entirely happy to buy them because they are "Japanese". The Jatco unit is one of the worst things ever put in a car since Yugo. Ignoring the progress made in quality for Italian made products is unfair, and most of the quality problems related to recently have more to do with that DCT unit that when working properly American thought was broken.

BWS · Jun 10, 2021

TripleT said:
what's your username on that sister site?

It is interesting that one mention quality, in my years work for the auto-industry I have never seen worse then what happens at Nissan yet people seem entirely happy to buy them because they are "Japanese". The Jatco unit is one of the worst things ever put in a car since Yugo. Ignoring the progress made in quality for Italian made products is unfair, and most of the quality problems related to recently have more to do with that DCT unit that when working properly American thought was broken.

Have no user names on any other forums. Also know nothing about Nissan quality. Never owned one, like I have never owned any other rice burner. Actually have never owned anything but mopars and the decents thereof. Be glad to give you the lengthy list if you have interest. I have owned a 2013 Fiat 500 and I can tell you without a doubt it was the worst car I ever owned. Which was a shame because it was fun, economical, purposeful vehicle. Also still have a 2015 Dodge Dart, of which I feel the Fiat influence was strong. Again the quality has just not been there. Sorry, it’s my experience. Defend it all you want. I deal in reality. And the reality is the American citing public apparently has a similar opinion of Italian nameplates

UN4GTBL · Jun 10, 2021

TripleT said:
Well if your not going to buy one they shouldn't make it

I can afford it big sister, but I don't want to dictate what other can buy.

LOL, I didn't mean it like that!

It just doesn't seem to fit the "performance" idea of Dodge now...aka why the Journey & Caravan are gone. So just confused by this.

Maybe I haven't kept up, but I was under the impression that this was going to be a RWD "fun" vehicle, vs a FWD vehicle with a little 1.5T, so I'm a little disappointed. By your comment, maybe I'm thinking of the "big sister" vehicle then?

I bought my Cherokee because Dodge doesn't have a modern equivalent vehicle.

Bili · Jun 10, 2021

UN4GTBL said:
I bought my Cherokee because Dodge doesn't have a modern equivalent vehicle.

Hornet may be answer for it. Roughly the same interior space.

Bili · Jun 10, 2021

BWS said:
Have no user names on any other forums. Also know nothing about Nissan quality. Never owned one, like I have never owned any other rice burner. Actually have never owned anything but mopars and the decents thereof. Be glad to give you the lengthy list if you have interest. I have owned a 2013 Fiat 500 and I can tell you without a doubt it was the worst car I ever owned. Which was a shame because it was fun, economical, purposeful vehicle. Also still have a 2015 Dodge Dart, of which I feel the Fiat influence was strong. Again the quality has just not been there. Sorry, it’s my experience. Defend it all you want. I deal in reality. And the reality is the American citing public apparently has a similar opinion of Italian nameplates

Maybe @TripleT may speak about Challenger, Charger, 2 500s, Stelvio...

AlexB · Jun 10, 2021

Bili said:
Hornet may be answer for it. Roughly the same interior space.

Which goes back to to how Cherokee is odd packaged.

AlexB · Jun 10, 2021

BWS said:
Have no user names on any other forums. Also know nothing about Nissan quality. Never owned one, like I have never owned any other rice burner. Actually have never owned anything but mopars and the decents thereof. Be glad to give you the lengthy list if you have interest. I have owned a 2013 Fiat 500 and I can tell you without a doubt it was the worst car I ever owned. Which was a shame because it was fun, economical, purposeful vehicle. Also still have a 2015 Dodge Dart, of which I feel the Fiat influence was strong. Again the quality has just not been there. Sorry, it’s my experience. Defend it all you want. I deal in reality. And the reality is the American citing public apparently has a similar opinion of Italian nameplates

So you told on your self……
You haven’t been inside a Post-Chrysler bankruptcy FIAT Italian Manufactured Vehicle. Dart was made in Illinois while U.S. 500’s where made in Mexico. Yet you speaking ill of Italian manufacturing….

You obviously don’t deal in reality, and the U.S. Government found that alot of the “American citing public “ as you put it are not worth the Legacy Michigan 3’s time/resources/efforts.
In fact it was a factor of GM & Chrysler’s need to be bailed out.

TripleT · Jun 10, 2021

BWS said:
Have no user names on any other forums. Also know nothing about Nissan quality. Never owned one, like I have never owned any other rice burner. Actually have never owned anything but mopars and the decents thereof. Be glad to give you the lengthy list if you have interest. I have owned a 2013 Fiat 500 and I can tell you without a doubt it was the worst car I ever owned. Which was a shame because it was fun, economical, purposeful vehicle. Also still have a 2015 Dodge Dart, of which I feel the Fiat influence was strong. Again the quality has just not been there. Sorry, it’s my experience. Defend it all you want. I deal in reality. And the reality is the American citing public apparently has a similar opinion of Italian nameplates

Well this really isn't a site to complain about statistical actualities, and your individual bad luck. We prefer to talk about future and solid information not a twitter or FB like flame session.

I sure you are aware that 500 you own is from Mexico, the Dart from Illinois. And the idea that quality has done anything but massively improve over the Daimler and private equity penny pinch days, and Statistically is dramatically better is a documented fact. And let not pretend that it was stellar in the companies history. So whatever one attributes the Fix it again Tony are ideas of past.

I have 2 500 and they have been way better cars then the Pacifica, the Daimler era minivan, Journey, PT Crusier, and Breeze that I owned before. Loved my 2006 Charger but front suspension components were always on the clock. Sorry for your bad luck, but had you owned some other brands you would know that your always on that random wheel of misfortune. And a lot has to do with dealer experience Tesla are horrible cars but people that buy them are treated well.

That said I know a site where like minded people like to play the Zeno-Flame game if you PM me I will point you there. Otherwise enjoy the discord.

Dodge’s Next Vehicle Will Be A SUV Dubbed The “Hornet” For 2023:

Dodge’s Next Vehicle Will Be A SUV Dubbed The “Hornet” For 2023:​

Hornet Nameplate Will Return For Upcoming SUV...​

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Dodge’s Next Vehicle Will Be A SUV Dubbed The “Hornet” For 2023:

Hornet Nameplate Will Return For Upcoming SUV...