Brazil Sales 2018: FCA and GM bumper-to-bumper,the importance of a small Trucks

[AlexB]

A couple of weeks ago, Marry Barra pretty proclaim that GM was considering pulling out of Brazil and South American geographical area: Giant news.....Mary Barra may pullout of South America leaving FCA to dominate the region

But yet FCA sales identical amount of of vehicles and makes money them while GM generating significant operating losses in South America region. The answers is management and quality of FCA's revenue:Brazil - Flash report, Sales volume, 2018 - MarkLines Automotive Industry Portal

FCA Brazil 2018 overall:433,114
Fiat:183,369
Fiat Light Commercial Vehicles(LCV's):142,389
Jeep:106,953
Dodge:356
Chrysler:34
Dodge Light Commercial Vehicles:13

GM Brazil 2018 overall:434,430
GM (Chevrolet) Passenger Vehicles:389,531
GM Light Commercial Vehicles:44,899

VW Group Brazil 2018 overall:375,590
VW Passenger Vehicles:302,205
VW Light Commercial Vehicles:64,708
Audi:8,677

FCA has a huge lead in the profitable LCV market, in addtion to Jeep and lower labor & trade area cost than GM.
GM is taking in lower revenue per vehicle.....ALL THINGS that comes down to Management.
FCA finding out a way to get the Metric Pickup Truck into production (Remember, the Late & Great Sergio did suggest Brazil would be the one market it would be badge under the Fiat brand) is highly important for South America to expand the lead in the Commercial market.

GM spending $2 billion to get out of Brazil & South America would be another hugh positive for FCA.

 

[Freshforged]

GM management continues to be a dumpster fire. Even when they get it right (hybrid vehicles) they get it wrong ( can’t sell at a profit).

 

[Bili]

Even when they get it right (hybrid vehicles) they get it wrong ( can’t sell at a profit).

They've announced that PHEV is not the future???

In other words. GM leadership is suggesting that FCA and FoMoCo are crazy because they will introduce a lot of HEV and PHEV models in the near future.
Or is it a vice versa?

 

[AlexB]

They've announced that PHEV is not the future???

In other words. GM leadership is suggesting that FCA and FoMoCo are crazy because they will introduce a lot of HEV and PHEV models in the near future.
Or is it a vice versa?

Yes: Giant news.....Mary Barra may pullout of South America leaving FCA to dominate the region

Sergio and John Elkann have both blast GM's Autonomous and Electric as giant wastes of capital:

"Ayn Rand reminds us that “We can ignore reality but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality”, a sentiment which is very appropriate for FCA given the many changes the car industry is facing and the necessity to distinguish between sci-fi future scenarios and more realistic ones in making capital allocation decisions. "

https://www.exor.com/dms/Investitor...017_Annual_Report/EXOR 2017 ANNUAL REPORT.pdf

Reuss and Sci-fi GM exec: Detroit area’s ‘talent deficit’ cost it Amazon

 

[Deckard Cain]

I really dno't understand their strategy in LATAM. They're selling massive numbers of the Chevy Onyx. It's the leader on the biggest segment in Brasil.
It sells way more than the Fiat Argo. Even so, they're having massive losses in LATAM??

What the hell kind of product management do they have???

 

[Bili]

First of all. They are bad cost cutters. They are doing that in a wrong way.
For example lets say Opel. GM offered 7 different windshields on a single model, PSA has slashed that to a 2 or 3. And so on.
GM sold Opel cars just to sold. Than PSA came in and all of suddenly there are no any more huge rebates and km0( for those outside of EU, pre-registered cars at dealership).

I presume that in Latin America they have similar heavy discount policy. Sell just to make numbers and not at profit.
Add to that their inefficiency and...

 

[AlexB]

First of all. They are bad cost cutters. They are doing that in a wrong way.
For example lets say Opel. GM offered 7 different windshields on a single model, PSA has slashed that to a 2 or 3. And so on.
GM sold Opel cars just to sold. Than PSA came in and all of suddenly there are no any more huge rebates and km0( for those outside of EU, pre-registered cars at dealership).

I presume that in Latin America they have similar heavy discount policy. Sell just to make numbers and not at profit.
Add to that their inefficiency and...

Mary's solution well assuming Brazil's labor union's and Government are okay with one plant closure....the next Onix is co-developed by SAIC and will have Way higher Chinese Content & Parts. It will also be made in China (who knows if it would also included exports).


Onslaught Of Future GM Models With New Nameplates Coming To China

 

[Bili]

Yes: Giant news.....Mary Barra may pullout of South America leaving FCA to dominate the region

Sergio and John Elkann have both blast GM's Autonomous and Electric as giant wastes of capital:

https://www.exor.com/dms/Investitor-Relations/Relazione-e-Bilanci/Archivio/2018/ENG/2017_Annual_Report/EXOR 2017 ANNUAL REPORT.pdf

Reuss and Sci-fi GM exec: Detroit area’s ‘talent deficit’ cost it Amazon

Top talent? Of course that top talents in IT sector will not go to Detroit.
He never thought about JV or about opening some R&D outside of Detroit area?

Speaking about autonomous driving and full electric cars. GM's leadership is IMO to much obsessed with Tesla.

On the other hand we have FCA.

Electrification plan sounds very realistic. A lot of PHEV models, a lot of MHEV models. But BEV models are compliance related with small Fiat cars in Europe and Jeeps for China while the most expensive cars on FCA line up which are Maseratis will serve as a technology demonstrator with 800 Volts BEV arhitecture. Just imagine a car with similar battery capacity as Tesla but with twice as fast charging time

For autonomous driving FCA is leaning on JVs. For Level 3 it's the one with BMW and Mobileye.
Level 4 with Waymo. In this case Waymo scares me. But we are long way through Level 4.

Mary's solution well assuming Brazil's labor union's and Government are okay with one plant closure....the next Onix is co-developed by SAIC and will have Way higher Chinese Content & Parts. It will also be made in China (who knows if it would also included exports).


Onslaught Of Future GM Models With New Nameplates Coming To China

I don't know what to say about GM...

They have 2 plants in Brazil? I hope that both will be shut down. That would leave Mercosur up to grab for any car maker.
FCA is strong in Mercosur and that's it in Latin America.

For platforms. VSS-F should be their MQB. But they are was behind the schedule. Actually it's inspired by MQB and this Bob Lutz's idea. They will need to reengineer engines. Exhaust at the back and tilted backwards. That was Bob's idea.

 

[Freshforged]

They've announced that PHEV is not the future???

In other words. GM leadership is suggesting that FCA and FoMoCo are crazy because they will introduce a lot of HEV and PHEV models in the near future.
Or is it a vice versa?

Nothing like that. They say HEV/BEV are the future, but they can’t seem to put a compelling product into that space, even after years and different several models/approaches.
EV1
Volt
Bolt
ELR
I’m sure they plan on trying, but man, talk about squandering a lead...

 

[Bili]

Nothing like that. They say HEV/BEV are the future, but they can’t seem to put a compelling product into that space, even after years and different several models/approaches.
EV1
Volt
Bolt
ELR
I’m sure they plan on trying, but man, talk about squandering a lead...

I thought that Mark Reuss have said that hybrids don't have a future. Dunno.

What is the future:

• MHEV
• HEV
• PHEV
• BEV

?

I can comment about Europe. In my opinion through the 2025 main form of electrification in Europe will be MHEV and PHEV. And it seems that FCA is not betting on current 48 Volts eTorque MHEV for Europe even if they will offer a lot of MHEVs in the near future. No HEV for Europe, a lot of PHEV and BEV reserved for a very expensive or a very small cars.

 

[Freshforged]

I thought that Mark Reuss have said that hybrids don't have a future. Dunno.

What is the future:

• MHEV
• HEV
• PHEV
• BEV

?

I can comment about Europe. In my opinion through the 2025 main form of electrification in Europe will be MHEV and PHEV. And it seems that FCA is not betting on current 48 Volts eTorque MHEV for Europe even if they will offer a lot of MHEVs in the near future. No HEV for Europe, a lot of PHEV and BEV reserved for a very expensive or a very small cars.

Mark Reuss might have, I swear that guy just spouts stuff for the shock value. How he got to as high a possition in the company just shows how bad off they are.

 

[Bili]

Mark Reuss

IMO he is some sort of Tesla's fanboy or maybe he is desperate for a JV with Tesla.

 

[AlexB]

Mark Reuss might have, I swear that guy just spouts stuff for the shock value. How he got to as high a possition in the company just shows how bad off they are.

Volt Follow-Up Unlikely as GM Turns Away from Hybrids

 

[Freshforged]

Volt Follow-Up Unlikely as GM Turns Away from Hybrids

Wow. I understand trying to get ahead of the curve and be the first actor in a field, but if the battery techs not there (and it’s not there yet) you’re cutting yourself off from viable models/markets TODAY while trying to push a product that has yet to hit the sweet spot in terms of cost/range/style/reliability/longevity. The self inflicted wounding continues.