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Alfa Romeo News

Mopar392

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Tonale and B-UV might be the last ICE to be launched by Alfa before the transition to BEV only.
I'd guess the next Guilia, Stelvio, E-Sedan and E-UV are BEV only.

IMO, EU manufacturers are making a mistake by transitioning to BEV only. US is 50% BEV of all new sales by 2030 and China is %40 BEV of all new sales. These are the 2 of the biggest markets.
Japanese companies, driven by their government, are doing it better, IMO, and are transitioning to Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs), Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEVs) and Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEVs) only by 2035. No standard Hybrid and no ICE-only.

Italy is fighting against only BEV policy, and I hope this would give Alfa a chance to make, even if a limited production, ICE cars.
 

pumadog

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BEV only Alfa Romeo is a blasphemy.
BEV only Alfa is the only possible way, in Europe at least. Otherwise you'll be out of business in a few years.
Manley already did a lot of damage to Alfa Romeo. Cancellation of some projects, switching them to Maserati and pushing Alfa Romeo R&D away from Modena.

Seeing some plans intended by Imparato it would only be worse. Of course some of them are pushed by Portuguese mag Tavares.
No E-segment Alfa Romeo models.
No PHEV and MHEV for GIulia and Stelvio MCA which is BTW pushed back by one year and is toned down.
You haven't seen official plans for Alfa yet. Everything until now is internal work in progress – that got changed for the better. Postponement of Giulia/Stelvio MCA makes sense IMHO, because the impact for the brand is biggest when bundled to the Tonale launch.
Killing FCA e-Mini platform due to political reasons and choosing suboptimal CMP which has further postponed Alfa Kid industrialisation.
Didn't you say STLA Small will be e-Mini evolution? For the time being they still want ICE versions and cars bigger than 365 cm. e-CMP delivers now in contrast to e-Mini. e-CMP v2 even more so. After that they'll switch to STLA Small anyway.
Some not so good or very bad decisions from a get go.

Then he came with the new Alfa Romeo plan which was planned as BEV only launches starting in 2025 with all Alfa Romeo models being BEV only by 2030. And of course no E segment models which would be a bloodbath for North America and China.
Now he is talking about BEV only from 2027 and from what I've heard E-segment models are back in the mix.
It is a good character trait to revise decisions and viewpoints.
Racing? I don't think that it's necessarily for Alfa Romeo to be in racing but current F1 program is strange and doesn't make much sense. Going to Indy would be IMO 100x times better.
IMHO F1 is the only racing series to get global exposure to a wide audience, not just small racing communities. Indy brings nothing in Europe.
 

TripleT

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IMHO F1 is the only racing series to get global exposure to a wide audience, not just small racing communities. Indy brings nothing in Europe.
That is changing.... before the CART split Indycar has international appeal rivaled F1. It taking some time to recover but there is a influx of F1 ladder drivers who have discovered a friendly paddock, better racing, and a chance to sniff the podium. International interest is expanding as are the TV contracts. For the price to be a back runner in F1 they can be one to engine supplier.... F1 teams that now bound by the spending limit are considering joining and run transcontinental partnerships, McLaren is the first with a natural history in both sports. Yes F1 get more exposure but is also nearly impossible to show results. Look in the years for Indycar to expand back to Mexico and Australia or New Zealand.... EU and Japan to follow. I firmly believe that if SM had not passed there would be Alfa Engine in the series now.
 

Deckard Cain

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BEV only Alfa is the only possible way, in Europe at least. Otherwise you'll be out of business in a few years.

You haven't seen official plans for Alfa yet. Everything until now is internal work in progress – that got changed for the better. Postponement of Giulia/Stelvio MCA makes sense IMHO, because the impact for the brand is biggest when bundled to the Tonale launch.

Didn't you say STLA Small will be e-Mini evolution? For the time being they still want ICE versions and cars bigger than 365 cm. e-CMP delivers now in contrast to e-Mini. e-CMP v2 even more so. After that they'll switch to STLA Small anyway.

It is a good character trait to revise decisions and viewpoints.

IMHO F1 is the only racing series to get global exposure to a wide audience, not just small racing communities. Indy brings nothing in Europe.
The german brands went head first into EVs. 20% of car production in Germany are EVs already. Lingering too long with ICE engines will doom brands to irrelevance against them.
Alfa does not have an enormous legacy ICE product range. They can quickly shift to EV. Purists might not like but purists are a laughable minority and they'll eventually come around or they can stick to the classics.
 

TripleT

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Totally disagree.... when you remove the character that make a brand unique then it is dead anyway....

Slap Maytag on a Whirlpool doesn't make it a Maytag.

Laughable is equating actual market forces the government action. The assumption the Bureaucracy is picking the best market and engineering solution is flat false.

Italian styling exercise on a French appliance is not recipe for success... Especially in China and NA where the adoption rate will lag well into the next decade.

While those in the EU may be comfortable the Elite class dictating what they should buy, in NA more you push the more resistance the market. Abandoning those two biggest markets in the world until next decade doesn't seem good business, but I guess we will see.

I guess that will make those on other sites happy as they get angry every time money is spent in NA on a brand that doesn't have NA roots.
 

KrisW

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I have driven Alfas for over a decade, and I personally have no problem with BEV-only Alfas. If there was a Giulia EV now, I would buy it. It really will not be long until ICE vehicles are seen as an anachronism. An EV platform allows unprecedented control over weight distribution compared to an ICE, and that alone will be good for a brand like Alfa, which has always been about handling and responsiveness, not outright speed.

I also love classic cars, but that doesn’t mean I want to have to double-declutch when changing gear in my daily driver. Things move on.

Didn't you say STLA Small will be e-Mini evolution? For the time being they still want ICE versions and cars bigger than 365 cm. e-CMP delivers now in contrast to e-Mini. e-CMP v2 even more so. After that they'll switch to STLA Small anyway.
That was me who said that about STLA Small, based on the platform dimensions shown during the Stellantis EV day. e-CMP cannot currently produce an A-segment car, or a well-packaged B-segment, but those are the exact footprint of STLA Small. I think e-CMP will be absorbed into STLA Medium - it’s just not space-efficient for small vehicles. I never figured out why PSA had two architectures that covered B-C segments: it always seemed to go against the whole idea of component sharing, and I suspect it had more to do with the origins of CMP as a cooperation with Dongfeng.

My feeling is that e-CMP will continue only for as long as models are offered with a mix of combustion and BEV power trains, but then the small car products that will be BEV only will be based on STLA Small instead.


@TripleT - In my experience as a motorsport fan, nobody outside of North America follows Indycar except as a “whatever happened to That F1 Driver” thing. There’s a pretty limited general audience for track racing as a sport anyway, and that means people gravitate to whatever is considered the highest level of the sport. Like it or not, that’s Formula 1. Indy is the equivalent of the FIA Formula 2, a series that has the same goals (lower cost of competition, more even playing field), but has not much exposure outside of the hardcore of motor-racing fans, despite sharing the bill with F1 over some European and Middle-eastern race meetings. F1 has its own problems (spiralling costs, an increasingly unequal field, a reputation for cosying up to despotic regimes, and a tendency to meddle with the rules for no apparent reason), but it’s still the biggest draw in the sport.
Everything else you say about Indy is correct, but it just doesn’t have anything like the profile. That may also be why it’s more congenial and fair...
 

TripleT

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You would be surprised.... I deal with people all over the world, and as more international driver are rising and the quality of the racing attracts... I see more increased interest.

Oward, Grosjean, and Oceana drivers....

Interest is growing
 

Deckard Cain

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Totally disagree.... when you remove the character that make a brand unique then it is dead anyway....

Slap Maytag on a Whirlpool doesn't make it a Maytag.

Laughable is equating actual market forces the government action. The assumption the Bureaucracy is picking the best market and engineering solution is flat false.

Italian styling exercise on a French appliance is not recipe for success... Especially in China and NA where the adoption rate will lag well into the next decade.

While those in the EU may be comfortable the Elite class dictating what they should buy, in NA more you push the more resistance the market. Abandoning those two biggest markets in the world until next decade doesn't seem good business, but I guess we will see.

I guess that will make those on other sites happy as they get angry every time money is spent in NA on a brand that doesn't have NA roots.
Please keep politics out of it ok? People in the EU are not comfortable with the "elite" dictating anything. People in the EU are suffering the disastrous effects of climate change and the consequences of spikes in prices of oil and natural gas screwing up our energy markets.
Enforcing strict emissions limits is a very popular measure over here, and you can search online for polls that demonstrate exactly that. In fact, most people believe that the EU is moving too slowly.

If you feel that Alfa or Stellantis brands are uncapable of making EVs that respect their heritage then you are expecting that the group will face bankruptcy in the future because the future will be electric. Alfa at the moment is nothing. The sales of the Giulia and the Stelvio are a joke and the brand needs sales at healthy profit margins to succeed, instead of blowing up hundreds of millions or billions of euros into niche products that are commercial flops.
 

TripleT

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Please keep politics out of it ok? People in the EU are not comfortable with the "elite" dictating anything. People in the EU are suffering the disastrous effects of climate change and the consequences of spikes in prices of oil and natural gas screwing up our energy markets.
Enforcing strict emissions limits is a very popular measure over here, and you can search online for polls that demonstrate exactly that. In fact, most people believe that the EU is moving too slowly.

If you feel that Alfa or Stellantis brands are uncapable of making EVs that respect their heritage then you are expecting that the group will face bankruptcy in the future because the future will be electric. Alfa at the moment is nothing. The sales of the Giulia and the Stelvio are a joke and the brand needs sales at healthy profit margins to succeed, instead of blowing up hundreds of millions or billions of euros into niche products that are commercial flops.
Please don't say keep politics out or it and then go on about polls and Disastrous effects of climate change. That is pure politics I have read much of IPPC report and it doesn't say what the Political elite says it does. The Carbon warming theory are just a tax and control scheme any some of biggest pusher of that admitted as such. Science isn't up for a vote, and those who know IPCC report and actual measured gas numbers WOULD never say for sure the .15% carbon increase from energy use would account for "Disastrous" effects. The input is simply to small and the natural variable input too large. Even if we pretend that it that case, the idea that the Bureaucratic Class knows the best solution and not the market is also devoid of logic. If there is such a demand for EV in Europe it would not need to be legislated, the market would speak it is the purest form of democracy.

The only one demanding a solution here is people like you, I did not say Don't build EV, I said don't only build EVs. While you seem to be quite happy falling in line WE don't do that here, we are the Country founded on not falling in line. The harder you push the harder we push back. Abandoning the second largest market in the world will not help. Frankly if they wanted to sell more Alfa then they should have tooled up more and expanded the dealer network. Its not tooled for the volume you think and making EV doesn't change that. China is also very large country where EV will not be practical for another 10 years outside the large metros the suffer brown outs now.

So this what you get a society the believe is dictates as you point out, and a country founded on personal liberty. Both are foreign to each other. I sure they can make a EV that is a styling exercise the honors the heritage, but denying that the powerplant in Italian cars appeal, is simply false. In the End turning cars in Appliances and a Commodity will not serve the industry. In NA they are about to do the incandescent light exercise as 2000x the value. The tech isn't ready.
 

Mopar392

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Please keep politics out of it ok? People in the EU are not comfortable with the "elite" dictating anything. People in the EU are suffering the disastrous effects of climate change and the consequences of spikes in prices of oil and natural gas screwing up our energy markets.
Enforcing strict emissions limits is a very popular measure over here, and you can search online for polls that demonstrate exactly that. In fact, most people believe that the EU is moving too slowly.

If you feel that Alfa or Stellantis brands are uncapable of making EVs that respect their heritage then you are expecting that the group will face bankruptcy in the future because the future will be electric. Alfa at the moment is nothing. The sales of the Giulia and the Stelvio are a joke and the brand needs sales at healthy profit margins to succeed, instead of blowing up hundreds of millions or billions of euros into niche products that are commercial flops.
Been living and working in Europe, I understand where the movement to EV is coming from.
But that doesn’t explain a brand like Alfa, which doesn’t have any kind of electrification yet, to move to a full EV within 4-6 years, whereas other brands like BMW and Mercedes, which have already been offering EV for the last couple to a few years and offering more in the next year or 2 and more R&D money, are not even committing to 2030 full EV push.
 
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Mopar392

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Please don't say keep politics out or it and then go on about polls and Disastrous effects of climate change. That is pure politics I have read much of IPPC report and it doesn't say what the Political elite says it does. The Carbon warming theory are just a tax and control scheme any some of biggest pusher of that admitted as such. Science isn't up for a vote, and those who know IPCC report and actual measured gas numbers WOULD never say for sure the .15% carbon increase from energy use would account for "Disastrous" effects. The input is simply to small and the natural variable input too large. Even if we pretend that it that case, the idea that the Bureaucratic Class knows the best solution and not the market is also devoid of logic. If there is such a demand for EV in Europe it would not need to be legislated, the market would speak it is the purest form of democracy.

The only one demanding a solution here is people like you, I did not say Don't build EV, I said don't only build EVs. While you seem to be quite happy falling in line WE don't do that here, we are the Country founded on not falling in line. The harder you push the harder we push back. Abandoning the second largest market in the world will not help. Frankly if they wanted to sell more Alfa then they should have tooled up more and expanded the dealer network. Its not tooled for the volume you think and making EV doesn't change that. China is also very large country where EV will not be practical for another 10 years outside the large metros the suffer brown outs now.

So this what you get a society the believe is dictates as you point out, and a country founded on personal liberty. Both are foreign to each other. I sure they can make a EV that is a styling exercise the honors the heritage, but denying that the powerplant in Italian cars appeal, is simply false. In the End turning cars in Appliances and a Commodity will not serve the industry. In NA they are about to do the incandescent light exercise as 2000x the value. The tech isn't ready.
That’s why Stellantis has a chance in a market like the US and China to capitalize on the slice of the ICE market that will be abandoned by VAG and GM, and offer ICE, hybrids and BEV.
This way you are covering a larger population.
 

TripleT

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The idea that part of the appeal of a automobile not in its powerplant, especially Italian and American Muscle cars.... is a pure denial of reality..

Dodge is more famous for the Hemi then most of the car models, Alfa has a similar history of famous powerplants, Heck the engines are more famous then the most of the models you have the Hemi, the Elephant, the Apache, Slant-six, Hellcat, even the new engine is Tornado.

If someone doesn't realize Powered by Samsung across the board will be a net lose for the industry, that not having distinction based on powerplant leads to commoditization, I am not sure I what else to say.

taking thermal energy as local as possible and turning it to motion will always be the most flexible versus doing it remotely especially when it can be stored in liquid form basically indefinitely.
 

TripleT

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Been living and working in Europe, I understand where the movement to EV is coming from.
But that doesn’t explain a brand like Alfa, which doesn’t have any kind of electrification yet, to move to a full EV within 4-6 years, whereas other brands like BMW and Mercedes, which have already been offering EV for the last couple to a few years and offering more in the next year or 2 and more R&D money, are not even committing to 2030 full EV push.

Simply the Beanies, the new owners don't appreciate the appeal of the individual brands they absorbed. They think different models are defined by Styling and Market position. Common electric system defined by programming with the reduction in SKUs is all they see, simplicity in manufacturing.

Any nod to the environment is simply Greenwashing. There is a reason why so many company Greenwash, because it work, people buy into it easily.
 

Mopar392

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Simply the Beanies, the new owners don't appreciate the appeal of the individual brands they absorbed. They think different models are defined by Styling and Market position. Common electric system defined by programming with the reduction in SKUs is all they see, simplicity in manufacturing.

Any nod to the environment is simply Greenwashing. There is a reason why so many company Greenwash, because it work, people buy into it easily.
You can still have different models differentiated by different styling and market target, and share as much SKU as if they were EV.
 

TripleT

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You can still have different models differentiated by different styling and market target, and share as much SKU as if they were EV.
Yes like what Dodge does with Hellcat and Apache.
 

Mopar392

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Yes like what Dodge does with Hellcat and Apache.
You can also extend that concept toward Alfa and Maserati for example.
Same platform but different suspension tuning and dynamic depending on the vehicle. Same engine architecture but different tuning and rating depending on the target market.
 

TripleT

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You can also extend that concept toward Alfa and Maserati for example.
Same platform but different suspension tuning and dynamic depending on the vehicle. Same engine architecture but different tuning and rating depending on the target market.
Yes so often the powerplant is the star of the machine..... How does taking that away not affect the premium brands..... some of the them are apparently waking up to this.
 

Appassito

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Smart move, helping Alfa Romeo into the Chinese market, gaining a lot of "Face - 面子".
Important in that part of the world.

FETeqX8WQAc3LVw

 

KrisW

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Yes... this was supposed to be a secret, but a Chinese Alfa dealership let the cat out of the bag last week by putting up their promotional window dressing congratulating Zhou before the official announcement date.

Zhou comes with huge sponsorship contracts behind him ($30m+), but unlike some other heavily-sponsored drivers in the past, he also seems to be good at the actual job of racing, and is #2 in the Formula 2 championship with two rounds left to go.

This is already a big deal for Stellantis in China, as it will bring the Alfa brand to much wider attention than currently (not hard: Alfa is very very low profile in the Middle Kingdom).

But if Zhou actually does well in F1, then it could kick off a huge uptick in sales for Alfa: The problem for foreign car brands in China is that wealthy Chinese are under social (and sometimes political) pressure to be patriotic in their public displays of consumption - it’s has become a bad look to choose foreign luxury brands rather than supporting domestic Chinese ones. But if Zhou does well enough to be seen as a national hero, and he drives Alfa Romeo cars, this gives the middle class Chinese buyers the ability to buy a luxury imported car without appearing unpatriotic.
 

JasonB

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Very good move.
Welcome to the family Guanyu Zhou.
 

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