Alfa Romeo News

[AlexB]

I'm liking the way he clearly communicates about the brand. Although he would've eased a lot of doubts in people's minds if he had clearly stated that some of the future models will be RWD.
There he was a bit evasive even if he didn't close the door to it.

But I appreciate his statement that Alfa is about sportiness. It doesn't have to be about combustion. Alfa sales in Europe and Japan will increase with B and C-segment Alfas, but I don't believe they will increase enough in the US.

As for Bare, his dissatisfaction is not with the guy being french, but with him coming from PSA and with the management structure of Stellantis in Europe being essentially PSA.
I don't mind if this translates into executing new product at a consistent pace and without constant delays. That to me as done more harm to Alfa than anything that Imparato and Stellantis might do.

And if the new Opel models. such as the Astra, are an example of what they might do with the other brands then I can't wait to see what they'll come up with.

STLA Large will be used. A big plus given Ralph and others mention STLA large stretches down to small D-Segement.

 

[Bili]

STLA Large will be used. A big plus given Ralph and others mention STLA large stretches down to small D-Segement.

How do you know that?

P.S.
The issue is. There will be no E-segment Alfa Romeo and I don't understand it.

 

[AlexB]

How do you know that?

P.S.
The issue is. There will be no E-segment Alfa Romeo and I don't understand it.

Next generation Giulia on STLA Large (Hopefully)

But if the name does not change, what changes for Alfa Romeo is the nature of the engines, which begin the electrification process. “It is a necessary evolution for the brand, if Europe requires an end to the sale of combustion engines, we must be ready, otherwise we are dead,” says Imparato. And in fact, here is the path: in 2022, with the new SUV Tonale, which will be smaller than the Stelvio, the first Alfa Romeo plug-in hybrid model in history arrives. In 2024, the first pure electric, as announced in the slogan mentioned above, which will also be available in a mild-hybrid thermal version. And in 2025-26 the new Alfas built on the STLA Large electric platform will arrive.

 

[Deckard Cain]

STLA Large will be used. A big plus given Ralph and others mention STLA large stretches down to small D-Segement.

If Alfa nearly died it was because Marchionne boycotted the launch of a 159 successor, prolonged the Giulietta life beyond a reasonable point and didn't approve any SUVs. A period of 4 years from the death of the 159 to the launch of the Giulia is unacceptable. 10 years of the Giulietta in the market without a decent update (even of the infotainment system) is unacceptable.

Then they launch two freaking awesome products in the Giulia and Stelvio. And freeze new launches again!!!
The Giulia Q is a great halo car. Something that draws buyers to the brand. It sells more than the BMW M3. But then they don't launch enough enticing versions of the Giulia for fleets and private buyers.

To me not using the STLA Large is not a big issue. And I don't mind that Alfa won't have E-segment vehicles or that they seem to be launching more european centric models. I would love them to have E-segment vehicles but what I actually want to see is consistent car launches and a stable product range. I think that Alfa's survival is guaranteed by that more than by having E-segment vehicles.

The last E-segment vehicle from Alfa was the Alfa 166. It was launched in 1999. Its importance is overrated. They would have their work cut out for them to crack that segment in significant numbers after such a prolonged absence.

 

[Bili]

One question. Is Alfa Romeo Stellantis' Global Premium Brand?

Question is for @Deckard Cain and @pumadog .

 

[pumadog]

Yes, the B- and C-segment models are so much more important for Alfa's survival then E-segment. Also for my personal driving pleasure. But I understand it's importance for American and Asian markets. If not that rumored GC sister car, do a next Levante sister car! I don't see much market for an E-sedan.

And in 2025-26 the new Alfas built on the STLA Large electric platform will arrive.

As I read it, it's no direct quote from Imparato but an editorial addition though. Let's hope he said it.

 

[Deckard Cain]

I don't care if it is or not the global premium brand. And I don't think an E-segment car is as important for a global premium brand anyway.
Alfa sells well in Japan. Do you know what sells well there? Compact and city cars.
What doesn't? E-segment cars.
There's more to being a global premium brand than making big E-segment SUVs for the US market.

 

[pumadog]

One question. Is Alfa Romeo Stellantis' Global Premium Brand?

Question is for @Deckard Cain and @pumadog .

They say so. DS and Lancia are just planned to expand around their home markets.

So of course Alfa must offer product that appeals outside of Europe. But the brand has to expand from a strong home base. It doesn't help if it sells 15k E-SUVs globally instead of 100k B-SUVs mainly in Europe. The brands basically needs more sales to be visible for John Doe and fund marketing + distribution channels.

 

[pumadog]

So good to see a dedicated Alfa boss on site after years of remote, on the side management!

Imparato yesterday:

Today we met 150 international suppliers for the manufacture of our #AlfaRomeoTonale at the Pomigliano plant where it will be built. Our message: quality without compromise. Our 1st electrified vehicle, launching mid-2022, must meet the highest quality standards #ProudlyAlfaRomeo

 

[Mopar392]

IMO, Alfa Romeo shouldn't sell anything larger than Guilia or Stlevio. Leave that for Maserati.
Alfa Romeo should offer the hot selling segments i.e. C- and B-segments. I would love to see an Alfa Romeo offering for Audi A3/S3, Q3 and Q5.

 

[TripleT]

They say so. DS and Lancia are just planned to expand around their home markets.

So of course Alfa must offer product that appeals outside of Europe. But the brand has to expand from a strong home base. It doesn't help if it sells 15k E-SUVs globally instead of 100k B-SUVs mainly in Europe. The brands basically needs more sales to be visible for John Doe and fund marketing + distribution channels.

ahhhhhhhhhh not really it depends on the margins 100K @ $500 margin is $50M revenue, 15K at $4K margin is $60M in revenue, a $500 swing because of market swing all of as sudden your just keeping the lights on, while $500 swing in the later is still still $52M. This is something people confuse often. VOLUME IS NOT A RELEVANT MARKER TO SUCCESS. This how the plant managers of hot selling vehicles in NA, get frog walked out of the company.

The idea that Alfa must play in the lower margin categories as mean of success if false, more likely just cause more cash flow issue, never mind the cost of implementation. This is how you get some French guy in a suit deciding a Alfa is a styling exercise on top of existing appliance platform with nearly zero consideration for the driving dynamics that is the true mark of a Alfa.

Yes yes as a consumer lower margin cars are attractive, cuz me me me ...... but if it cost the brand what makes is it special if just a Opel with Alfa design cue it not worth it.

To put it in perspective for the people in NA..... Would be ok for them to take a Peugeot slap a Jeep body on it and sell it here as a Jeep? No way people would go Ape pooo on it. Like Jeep a Alfa has specific expectation as drivers car.... NOT a styling exercise. B and C segment cars make it more difficult to do that with proper margin especially give the size of that market in the EU.

 

[pumadog]

VOLUME IS NOT A RELEVANT MARKER TO SUCCESS

That's true. But you can't just focus on the short term margins.

If you're not a luxury, exotic car builder, you need a certain level of sales to keep your product visible in public, to keep your dealers/garages and plants busy, to fund advertising and product development. 60k sales/year worldwide are just not enough to a mass market premium brand like Alfa which competes with million selling brands like BMW/Mercedes/Audi.

You have to find the sweet spot between brand character and mass appeal. And to demand premium prices in expensive segments you have to build up trust with customer experiences in more affordable products first.

 

[Bili]

you need a certain level of sales to keep your product visible in public

OK. Let's stop there.

So you are saying that it's OK to care about EU dealers but the same ignoring US dealers? Because that's exactly what you've implied through your posts.

 

[Deckard Cain]

It's a false dicotomy equating compact and sub-compact cars with lower margins. That's not the case in many situations. As an example Dacia has very high margins.
The smaller models from the german brands also have decent margins.
If anything, Alfa compacts and sub-compacts jsutifies higher ASP.

I think Alfa needs halo models. I don't think Alfa should be out of the E-segment, but I think priority should be given to euro-centric segments and then go for E-segment vehicles when the brand already is on more solid footing.
That'll line-up with the DS9 having to be replaced as well. That way they'll have more economies of scale for a better E-segment vehicles.

 

[pumadog]

I think Alfa needs halo models. I don't think Alfa should be out of the E-segment, but I think priority should be given to euro-centric segments and then go for E-segment vehicles when the brand already is on more solid footing.

Absolutely!

So you are saying that it's OK to care about EU dealers but the same ignoring US dealers? Because that's exactly what you've implied through your posts.

I wish models for both. But if I have to decide between more models for US dealers or for EU dealers: EU dealers! Why? The US never had more than 2,5 – but the EU dealers suffer going down from 4,5 (again) to 2 rather expensive models. But I don't think they plan to ignore the US dealers, with a special Alfa US manager on board now.

 

[TripleT]

Low cost manufacturers aside yes smaller the vehicle and lower the transaction price the lower the margins, especially with higher volumes. While one would hope a Alfa version of Opel would garner higher margins, if the driving experience expected out of Alfa is not present the would depreciate quickly, When one uses the term short term margin, this is how I would define it.

Not only that it would erode the margins on larger and higher transactions. Visibility doesn't require mass volumes in the least. In fact some of the most visible marques in the world are extremely low volume..... Dime a dozen ..... doesn't infer any sort of exclusivity or margin value. The more of something the less special it becomes.

So while I understand the personal desire for smaller and more affordable Alfa models it that comes at the cost of the individuality required to make a Alfa.... then the long run it will erode margins and kill the brand.

Too me a Alfa like a Jeep, must be specific to it purpose and Must be individualized and optimized to it purpose. If the idea is only to style toward those who like a Italian design language... much like you see celebrated by the new PSAs .... then the brand is dead.

Yeah Yeah ..... powertrain.... really? Nope that is to be communized also ..... so we are talking programming and styling... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz No one should fall asleep in a Alfa or a Jeep.

 

[pumadog]

Also this adds visibility, but sadly not on the streets:

Alfa Romeo agree multi-year extension with Sauber to remain in Formula 1​

Thank you, heartless bean counters!

Alfa Romeo agree multi-year extension with Sauber to remain in Formula 1 | Formula 1®

The iconic name of Alfa Romeo will remain in Formula 1 beyond this season, after the famous Italian marque announced a multi-year agreement with Sauber which will have “yearly assessments”…

www.formula1.com

 

[Bili]

There will be in F1 for 2022, that's for sure. 2023? I see them in Formula E. It will be quite a shock if they decide the otherwise.

But as I said. Till this day there is no new E segment model in the plans. And there is no more than 1 new Alfa Romeo per year.

 

[Appassito]

MILAN – July 13, 2021 – A meeting with 150 suppliers, both Italian and international, to better prepare the launch of the new Alfa Romeo Tonale, the “small” SUV of the Alfa Romeo company, which will be presented in March next year to go on the market in June. The meeting was held at the Stellantis plant in Pomigliano d’Arco and was wanted by the CEO of Alfa Romeo, Jean Philippe Imparato, the manager chosen by Carlos Tavares to lead the relaunch of the historic brand.

The Tonale will be the first Alfa model to be electrified, first in a plug-in hybrid version and then also in a “pure” electric version.
The launch was originally scheduled for the end of this year but, after his arrival at Alfa, Imparato has decided to postpone the time to get to commercialization already with as wide a range as possible.
The theme of the meeting, with 60 suppliers in attendance and others connected via streaming, was “Quality without compromise”.

“To achieve excellence”, Imparato said, “we start with the selection of materials.
Our suppliers are companions on a journey that has as its destination the brand’s first electrified vehicle, with authentic Alfa Romeo DNA and the highest quality standards ”.

During the presentation, the objectives of the project were shared, with the participation of the Chief customer experience officer of Stellantis, Richard Schwartzwald, and the director of the Campania plant, Alessio Leonardi.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414937730686070785

 

[pumadog]

There will be in F1 for 2022, that's for sure. 2023? I see them in Formula E. It will be quite a shock if they decide the otherwise.

But as I said. Till this day there is no new E segment model in the plans. And there is no more than 1 new Alfa Romeo per year.

"Multi-year extension" says something, no? Some articles claim it runs though 2024 at least. Who watches Formula E? Formula 1 will become more and more electric anyway. Imparato:

"We are driven by passion and excellence. Formula 1 represents a cutting-edge laboratory for the future electrification of our range, fully coherent with our vision for the coming years. Furthermore, motorsport brings the incomparable global exposure we wish to leverage for a successful future.”

As for product cadence, we are used to no E Alfa for 14 years (while the 166 only sold under 100k units in it's whole cycle) and any plans were already stopped under Manley. If we really got 1 new Alfa per year that would triple Alfa's launches from the 0.3 yearly of the last decade. Hurray!