Production Tonale!!!

[Bili]

Why PHEV? It adds a lot of weight which is counterproductive for cornering.

Speaking about handling. How to improve in comparison to a Jeep Compass?

 

[Deckard Cain]

Maybe for a sporty version being a PHEV is not a requirement.
But it's good for the buyer to have electric-only range for the day to day, and then sporty combined output when they feel like it.

 

[Bili]

As I said. Alfa is not about 0-60 or straight line speed. It's all about cornering and steering feel and response.

In my opinion the best would be a P2 MHEV with electric supercharger.

 

[Bili]

Anyone has an idea what they can do with Tonale to improve handling in comparison to a Jeep Compass?

I will name one. That's what I've heard. 6 cm wider track in comparison to Compass.

What else?

 

[mopar22]

Biggest thing would be ride height/ground clearance. Alfa doesn't need to worry about that at all unlike jeep

 

[Deckard Cain]

Beat me to it Mopar22.
Also, tune the suspension to be a bit harder.

 

[pumadog]

Do you think it's the same Small Wide 4x4 LWB platform as the Compass or rather another evolution?
Small (Punto) > Small Wide (500L) > Small Wide 4x4 (500X) / Small Wide 4x4 LWB (Compass) > Tonale / new B SUV triplets?

I prefer the front design to the concept, while the rear lights here lost a bit. I hope the center console with all those different parts is work-in-progress!

 

[Bili]

As I said. From what I've heard Tonale will have wider track width in comparison to current Small Wide offering. It should be around 6 cm wider. That will help with a handling,

But what Small Wide lacks is a steering feel and response. They could solve with a different electric steering assist programming, more direct steering, but also with changes on a front suspension geometry plus new materials with using aluminium instead of steel for less unsprung weight.

I'm confident that they will make further upgrades on a platform. Like stiffer or/and lighter body in white.
They can additionally bring weight down by using aluminium for all closures. I'm not sure about this one because it's not cheap. Aluminium is not cheap and this solution is only used on Giulia/Stelvio, Wrangler/Gladiator and Maserati products.

 

[pumadog]

I bit lighter would be good. As the current Jeeps are called quite heavy in European comparisons. I didn't check numbers. As for steering, I think of the Giulietta's very different character compared to Bravo/Delta.

 

[Bili]

As the current Jeeps are called quite heavy in European comparisons. I didn't check numbers.

Compass? Not against likes of Q3, Tiguan, X1 or even Kia Sportage. Yes against Nissan QQ but Nissan lacks IRS for FWD versions and is smaller inside. Actually Compass is quite spacious for the passengers. It lacks cargo volume but that's due to moderate rear overhang and MacPherson rear suspension which consume a lot of vertical space. Just take a look at Compass and Cherokee and compare width of their luggage compartment. It's wider on a Cherokee which is most likely related to a multilink vs MacPherson rear suspension.

Giulietta gained different steering assist, suspension geometry and suspension materials in comparison to Bravo/Delta. Not to mention that platform itself was almost completely new.

 

[pumadog]

Yes. And many had assumed that it was just another car on the existing Compact platform. Could be the same now with the Tonale and Small Wide.

 

[Bili]

Now compare the panel just in front of the door with part #5 the following drawing (from the Jeep Compass parts catalogue).
Then compare the rocker panel under the door sill with part #2 in the same drawing.



Now, compare the rear wheel well panel with the following drawing, taken from the Jeep Renegade parts catalogue (the drawing in the Compass catalogue was from a different angle which made identification too difficult).

 

[pumadog]

So the upper picture is actual Tonale material? I'm too ignorant to see what's the same and what's different.

 

[Bili]

@pumadog

First picture? It's available since Geneva Auto Show. Part of the press material.
Back then various media outlets have said that platform choice was not finalized. Well, that's what FCA have said to them but it wasn't true. Some were lamented that it's related to Giulietta or Cherokee, some have said it's a short Giorgio while some said it's small as 500X.

Material above have its purpose to show that platform is a FWD and it's a Small Wide or its evolution. Of course they will not change everything. Some things will be similarly or identically executed.

Tonale's exterior design is more or less finished since this summer. AFAIK we will see more changes in interior, maybe some details like infotainment screen integration and central tunnel but basic layout of IP is there.

 

[redriderbob]

The Tonale will do very good here in North America. Around the Metro Detroit area, I see Stelvios everywhere now. Its a hot vehicle in the upscale suburbs here.

 

[Bili]

FCA could further differentiate Tonale from Compass by including electronically adjustable suspension which Compass lacks.

Than for example GKN Twinster AWD system. FCA's Small Wide based cars have GKN's AWD system but it's not Twinster.
Twinster can have axle disconnect and it can be fast or very slow(rear: cheaper) like 0.3 seconds like on Focus RS. There are versions like on Focus RS which can transfer up to 70% of torque at the rear wheels. But Twinster is all about torque vectoring rear differential. As we know both Giulia and Stelvio have TV rear differential.
At the front LSD should IMO be optional. It will further help with handling.

Of course FCA is already thinking about next generation Compass so all they'll chose for Tonale could trickle down to a 3rd generation Compass.


I've watched many video and rear many articles/opinions which are saying that Tonale has a long front overhang. That should be false unless that's a styling choice.
Small Wide platform offers modest front overhang.

I will give a list:

• Jeep Renegade 889 mm
• Fiat Tipo 893 mm
• Fiat 500X Urban 877 mm
• Fiat 500X Cross 898 mm
• Fiat 500L 850 mm
• Fiat 500L Cross 871 mm
• Jeep Compass 917 mm

And for comparison some old Alfa models but also some currently in production

• Alfa 159 1000 mm
• Alfa Giulietta 955 mm
• Alfa Stelvio 861 mm
  

So Small Wide based car can have a short overhang. All other is style or even crash test related. But one particular crash test is related to a hood length. It's a pedestrian impact.

 

[Rustydodge]

I'm admittedly ignorant when it comes to European sales, but could the wider track hurt sales in Europe?

 

[redriderbob]

Gives a good look at the size of the Tonale

 

[KrisW]

I'm admittedly ignorant when it comes to European sales, but could the wider track hurt sales in Europe?

Not particularly. It'll be a wider car, but still within the C-segment. If the length stays within the C-segment norms ( 4.5 m), then being wide is an advantage, as it offers more elbow-room inside.

 

[Bili]

I'm admittedly ignorant when it comes to European sales, but could the wider track hurt sales in Europe?

Will it translate in a wider car? Even if it will 6 gain additional cm that's in total 188 cm, still 3 less than for example Stelvio.

But as @KrisW have said it's unimportant if it stays around 4.5 meters in length. Most drivers will appreciate additional shoulder and elbow room.