Production Tonale!!!

[Archknight]

So far I'm impressed, hopefully they'll push this out as a 2021 next year!!

Production Alfa Romeo Tonale Surfaces In Leaked Photos With A Tamed Look | Carscoops

 

[Bili]

It's not a production Tonale. Some things like central tunnel looks unfinished plus it has a virtual cockpit but steering wheel does not have buttons to operate it and so on.

It was used for a clinic. Some competing compact SUVs for comparison which can be seen on this pictures are Audi Q3, Nissan Qashqai, BMW X2 and Range Rover Evoque. I can confirm that there was also a Jeep Compass.

Someone could be fired or sued.

This is a complete interior picture:

 

[Bili]

 

[ViperDave]

Looks good though, I really like the looks of Alfas.

BTW? How does someone get picked to view early models in a clinic??? That would be great to give a manufacturer feedback.

 

[Bili]

Engine list should be:

• 1.3 GSE T4
• 1.3 GSE T4 MHEV
• 1.3 GSE T4 PHEV
• 2.0 GME T4 MHEV
• 2.0 MJT MHEV

It sounds as expected but I would prefer 2.2 diesel over 2.0. It has much more torque. 2.0 diesel should come in various power levels.

1.3 base GSE is most likely 150 HP. Then 1.3 MHEV should be a P2 MHEV with 190 HP.

PHEV system should with eAWD as for Renegade and Compass. For sure combined power of 240 HP, maybe even less powerful 190 HP.

2.0 MHEV... I know that Maserati will receive one with 330 HP. We'll see what will they prepare here. That should be engine inside of Quadrifoglio so more than 330 HP is desirable.
I don't know if there will be a 2.0 with less power for US market.

 

[Bili]

Someone took his hands and played at Photoshop. This is how LED signature should look like:

 

[Mopar426]

Looks good though, I really like the looks of Alfas.

BTW? How does someone get picked to view early models in a clinic??? That would be great to give a manufacturer feedback.

No idea how to get picked but would be cool to go to one. A guy posted about going to a charger one years ago for what ended up being the 2011 car and he said they had 4-5 designs there and one was a straight up 4 door 69 charger looking one that he said didnt look good.

As for the tonale, a swing and a miss IMO, at least for anywhere that isn't Italy. Alfa doesn't have the brand equity to compete on a large scale against BMW (by brand equity I mean Alfa means nothing to non car people). They sell so few vehicles because its only car people, with money, that buy them. I'd be investing elsewhere if I was FCA right now and any Alfa money would be spent on marketing and advertising Alfa as a brand. I'd also pull the advertising nuke option on the giulia and stelvio and flat out advertise that they are Ferrari powered.

 

[Bili]

@Mopar426

Yes, they are not BMW but BMW numbers were not planned. Plus it took to much between models and because of that (at least in Europe) people don't put much faith into Alfa. They think that Alfa may leave market very soon. But that't the problem of the whole FCA in Europe except Jeep. They also have separate dealerships in Europe so it's more pronounced.

More models and more frequent launches are even more important for premium brands thatn for generalist brands.

So the last info is that 4th new Alfa has been approved. Dunno which one. My money is on bog SUV which is mainly for North American market but I may be wrong.

Decision is now to have more models and more frequent launches. First of all for Maserati and than for Alfa. They will even speed up some projects. That's what I've heard.
Of-course Maserati has priority. They will have 3 new models in the next 24 months plus 3 thoroughly refreshed models.

 

[TripleT]

No idea how to get picked but would be cool to go to one. A guy posted about going to a charger one years ago for what ended up being the 2011 car and he said they had 4-5 designs there and one was a straight up 4 door 69 charger looking one that he said didnt look good.

As for the tonale, a swing and a miss IMO, at least for anywhere that isn't Italy. Alfa doesn't have the brand equity to compete on a large scale against BMW (by brand equity I mean Alfa means nothing to non car people). They sell so few vehicles because its only car people, with money, that buy them. I'd be investing elsewhere if I was FCA right now and any Alfa money would be spent on marketing and advertising Alfa as a brand. I'd also pull the advertising nuke option on the giulia and stelvio and flat out advertise that they are Ferrari powered.

How very, sorry, Allparian of you. The Alfa sells as intended. They are not BMW they are not tooled to by BMW. The total implementation for Alfa is the same a single volume model as say the Pacifica or Grand Cherokee.... the US vs them stuff should be reserved for that forum. Alfa is boutique brand bridging between Maserati and volume brands. The vehicles serve as a platform for proving out on the edge tech and processes before they have volume implementation. So this money claim is false, it investment in FCA as a whole.

As for the Tonale it is very attractive and should be positional move up for those driving Giulietta

 

[Mopar426]

How very, sorry, Allparian of you. The Alfa sells as intended. They are not BMW they are not tooled to by BMW. The total implementation for Alfa is the same a single volume model as say the Pacifica or Grand Cherokee.... the US vs them stuff should be reserved for that forum. Alfa is boutique brand bridging between Maserati and volume brands. The vehicles serve as a platform for proving out on the edge tech and processes before they have volume implementation. So this money claim is false, it investment in FCA as a whole.

As for the Tonale it is very attractive and should be positional move up for those driving Giulietta

Alfa most certainly does not sell as intended and they are most certainly made to compete against BMW, this has been stated countless times and the Giula is a direct competitor to the 3 series in all forms, as is the Stelvio to the X5 in all forms and neither has sold as well as anticipated. Not only have they sold exprememly poorly in NA, they were even down 42% for the first half of 2019 versus 2018 in Europe.

Want projections? They said by 2014 they'd sell 500,000 cars globally - want to know what they did actually? 68,000.

The positive spin you guys can put on some of these dire FCA situations is laughable

 

[Ryan]

If you want to make posts about FCA dying or living on borrowed time, do it on another site. This one is just about the cars.

 

[Deckard Cain]

This SUV has enormous chances for success.
I think the LED signature is essential and they should also find a way to highlight it when the lights are turned off.
The interior will need a lot more work until the production model though.

That engine list is extremely enticing too.

 

[TripleT]

Alfa most certainly does not sell as intended and they are most certainly made to compete against BMW, this has been stated countless times and the Giula is a direct competitor to the 3 series in all forms, as is the Stelvio to the X5 in all forms and neither has sold as well as anticipated. Not only have they sold exprememly poorly in NA, they were even down 42% for the first half of 2019 versus 2018 in Europe.

Want projections? They said by 2014 they'd sell 500,000 cars globally - want to know what they did actually? 68,000.

The positive spin you guys can put on some of these dire FCA situations is laughable

Sell that ignorance to the guys at Allpar.... Some us have direct knowledge of the implementation of the Alfa brand models and NO they are sell as many as they can with the tools sets available. And with a supply interruption for some of the components. The 500K was a total for the entire implementation including 7 new models... There are currently 2.

I know capacity is hard for some.... The only thing laughable is the way some want to set brands against each other. The vehicle are arguably better than the 3 and X5, universally praised as the best driving vehicles in the class. THEY ARE NOT TOOLED TO COMPETE from a sales perspective with BMW. If that is your claim you better call up management and tell them to get more tools sets moving.... OH that right...… you were complaining about the money spent already.

Honestly if you want to play politics with the brands the forum already exists.... Lets actually talk about cars here, Can we?

 

[Mopar392]

There will be a QV version as an alternative to RSQ3 and GLA AMG, right?
Both of these hot SUVs are 400hp.

 

[Bili]

I'm not sure if it have 400 ponies but it will be fast around the corners and will provide an excellent steering feel and response That's what Alfa is all about. It's not always about who has the highest power rating.

Yes, there should be a QV version.

I'm actually expecting a lot from P2 MHEV technology. How was will they go? Will they use an electric supercharger and classic turbocharger on top of it? I would like to see QV engine with this technology.

 

[Mopar392]

It would be interesting to see a 4 banger with an electric supercharger and a classic exhaust-driven turbo.

I hope the keep the QV under the 65grand mark..

 

[Bili]

I'm not saying that it will have such a technology but I'm hoping for it. It's not necessary but it seems that it's desirable to have P2 MHEV technology to run electric supercharger. As we know so far P0 (eTorque) 48 Volt MHEV tech is not in the plans for FWD based cars. P2 MHEV is in the plans.

And I think that such engine can give more natural response without lag. Of course if they program it that way. It should be no problem with Alfa's DNA selector to provide it in 'D'/Dynamic mode.

 

[Ryan]

I'm not saying that it will have such a technology but I'm hoping for it. It's not necessary but it seems that it's desirable to have P2 MHEV technology to run electric supercharger. As we know so far P0 (eTorque) 48 Volt MHEV tech is not in the plans for FWD based cars. P2 MHEV is in the plans.

And I think that such engine can give more natural response without lag. Of course if they program it that way. It should be no problem with Alfa's DNA selector to provide it in 'D'/Dynamic mode.

Can you refresh us on the difference between P0 and P2?

 

[Bili]

@Ryan

Here it is:


Actually FCA is calling P0 as P1F.

Both P0 and P2 can feed electric supercharger. But let's say that P2 is a more desirable and more efficient solution.

For RWD cars FCA will use ZF's solution for P2 mild hybrid.

But P2 should debut on FWD cars on Small Wide cars like Jeep Renegade.
It will be interesting to see who will be a supplier and how efficient and powerful will it be.

Speaking about electric supercharger first application was on a diesel engine. AFAIK that's not a globally available engine. It's used on Audi 4 liter V8 diesel.

Today electric supercharger can be found on 3 liter gasoline engines from Daimler and JLR.
AFAIK Daimler is using P2 MHEV and electric supercharger supplied by BorgWarner while JLR is using P0 MHEV and supercharger from Valeo. Both superchargers have very similar specifications.

 

[Deckard Cain]

If they make a Q version I hope it is a PHEV of the 2.0 engine tuned as aggressively as possible.